EV general discussion

[Jonnycoupe]

Supply and demand, make hay whilst the sun shines. Story over nothing, can’t be overcharging if people are paying it.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Fully electric now, sorry for the rubbish pic didn’t have time to do much other than drive it home

Welcome to the club, looks like ex management on that plate - great spec. I can see it has 360 camera, I do actually miss that now.

 

[squerble]

The new 2024 Hyundai Kona is looking very nice, I must say. My current Kona is absolutely fantastic for what I need so I guess I'll be considering another Kona next. That being said, the Achilles heel of it is that charging speed - capped somewhere around 77-80kW, and the new one will be the same. 99% of my driving can be done on charges from home, but that 1% is niggling me to "wooo buy Telsa, SUPERCHARGER NETWORKKKK!"

 

[SKILL]

Got an update from the dealer yesterday and seems like my MG4 order may be near, potentially by the end of the month They estimated 16-20 weeks when I ordered and end of March is the 16 week mark I think so pretty good if so but won't be too surprised if it slips into April

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Supply and demand, make hay whilst the sun shines. Story over nothing, can’t be overcharging if people are paying it.

As has been said many times - UK salary sacrifice means EVs are effectively 66% cheaper than market value for a lot of drivers. The leasing companies are just pricing this in.

 

[Simon]

Where is 66% from

 

[Jonnycoupe]

A £500 car to someone with £500 car allowance, clearly if the lease works to £400 and the driver is getting a better car with lower running costs it’s a no brainer for the lease companies to move to £500 pricing and maximum their profit. I’m amazed people seem to ignore that.

Also car allowance drivers, are they still company car sales?

 

[jpaul]

no (subsidised) BIK benefit with car allowance , so not a company/fleet ev.

 

[Simon]

no (subsidised) BIK benefit with car allowance , so not a company/fleet ev.

Eh? Ah allowance for a car. Rather than a car payment

 

[b0rn2sk8]

A £500 car to someone with £500 car allowance, clearly if the lease works to £400 and the driver is getting a better car with lower running costs it’s a no brainer for the lease companies to move to £500 pricing and maximum their profit. I’m amazed people seem to ignore that.

Also car allowance drivers, are they still company car sales?

Salary sacrifice and car allowance drivers that lease though their company to benefit from the low BIK are company car drivers.

If they get paid are car allowance and source the car themselves are not.

IMO of course.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Where is 66% from

Salary sacrifice comes from gross salary not net. Higher rate tax payers therefore only pay £330 "real money" on a car worth £737 - that's 45% saving. On top of that you then save national insurance. Higher rate payers who game the system just right (i.e. those in the 100k+) bracket also offset the reducing personal allowance. Hence 66%.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

no (subsidised) BIK benefit with car allowance , so not a company/fleet ev.

I get a car allowance and then subscribe to the EV scheme. Two separate features.

Edit: car allowances aren't often tools used to allow employees to get cars. They are tools payroll/HR use to artificial bump your net pay and avoid pension contributions. E.g. I get like £8k/year car allowance but no pension is paid out of this, so rather than it looking like £8k less tax, less NI, less pension - £3k; it looks like £8k less tax, less NI - £4k.

Also any bonuses are paid on salary excluding car allowance, so the employer saves a few quid there too.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

That sounds insane to bump your pension. I purposely signed a 40 hr contract rather than 37 where most add Extended working week to boost pay 8%... 40 hr contract means the 8% extra also goes to pension, but thats a good thing when company doubles mine and also the bonus. Totally depends on the situation you are working in I guess.

Salary sacrifice and car allowance drivers that lease though their company to benefit from the low BIK are company car drivers.

If they get paid are car allowance and source the car themselves are not.

IMO of course.

Sorry I'm thinking of the SMMT numbers Dec23 was 15k Tesla's so interesting to see how the numbers are working out.

 

[Calpol]

It is unfortunately true

This research was released about a week ago: https://www.transportenvironment.or...charging-drivers-for-electric-cars-new-study/

Spoiler: Excerpt

Leasing deals for battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are being overpriced, new analysis by T&E of the used car market finds. In Europe, leasing offers for BEVs are on average 57% more expensive than their equivalent petrol models. For example, leasing an electric Peugeot 208 costs approximately €574 a month, whilst the petrol Peugeot 208 is offered at €371.

Battery electric cars have similar resale value to diesel and petrol vehicles, the analysis finds. Leasing companies typically charge customers for the expected loss in value of a vehicle over the three to four year lease, so higher lease prices mean they expect BEVs to lose more of their value. But this is no longer the case.

The higher leasing prices for battery electric cars are unjustified. T&E analysis of 2.7 million used car prices reveals that BEVs do not depreciate more than other types of cars. Depreciation for BEVs in Europe’s biggest markets (Germany, France and the UK) is on par with diesel and petrol. In Spain there is still a difference but the gap is closing.

I work in the sector and read all that report and there are so many flaws in the research it can only have been written by someone who know very little about the industry. I haven't got time to refute all the point for now but it is a very poor piece of research.

 

[SDK^]

On our Tusker SS scheme pricing is all over the place

• A Telsa Model Y LR is about £150 a month more than the equivalent spec and price Polestar 2
• A Kia EV6 GT is about £80 a month more than a BMW i4 M50, despite the BMW costing £10k OTR more
• A BMW iX is £150 a month cheaper than an OTR cheaper Jag iPace. In fact the iX40 M-Sport is cheaper than most EV's Probably due to the useless range/small battery size.

For sure other factors play a part - deprecation, insurance, special fleet deals etc.....

 

[jpaul]

I get a car allowance and then subscribe to the EV scheme.

but, isn't the allowance(of the type where you personally purchase a car) taxed ? , and you don't get the BIK liability/benefit .

[

Sorry im thinking of the SMMT numbers

December 2022 New Car Registrations

Chip crisis subdues new car market but EVs now second only to petrol

media.smmt.co.uk

While private buyers accounted for more than half of all registrations, fleets and business buyers were responsible for the lion’s share of battery electric vehicles, accounting for two thirds (66.7%) of all BEV registrations and 74.7% of the volume gain in 2022. Delivering the scale and speed of market transition required to meet climate change targets will require action to enthuse more private buyers to go electric.
]

 

[Simon]

Salary sacrifice comes from gross salary not net. Higher rate tax payers therefore only pay £330 "real money" on a car worth £737 - that's 45% saving. On top of that you then save national insurance. Higher rate payers who game the system just right (i.e. those in the 100k+) bracket also offset the reducing personal allowance. Hence 66%.

Think you have a maths fail. Eg 500 gross on 40% band is 300 net.

Up to 60% then you mean and only if in the 100-126k band. Hardly everyone. And isn’t it 62%

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Think you have a maths fail. Eg 500 gross on 40% band is 300 net.

Up to 60% then you mean and only if in the 100-126k band. Hardly everyone. And isn’t it 62%

Whatever - roughly right. It is priced in, and one of the few levers folk have to avoid paying the reducing rate other than paying into a pension that can't be touched till 57.

but, isn't the allowance(of the type where you personally purchase a car) taxed ? , and you don't get the BIK liability/benefit .

The allowance is taxed just like salary.

You attract BIK if you take an EV on salary sacrifice.

So it could look this like:
100k salary
6k car allowance
= 106k

exchange 4k salary for car
= 102k less £700 BIK

(ignoring all other taxes/pension).

 

[Greebo]

I work in the sector and read all that report and there are so many flaws in the research it can only have been written by someone who know very little about the industry. I haven't got time to refute all the point for now but it is a very poor piece of research.

I must admit it seems to ring true for the kind of cars we are looking at work.

At the higher end, if you take one manufacturers car at approx £70k and compare the lease price to their £70k EV car then the EV is £100 to £200 more per month and yet the deprecation is less for the lease company so it has always appeared to me that EV cars cost more than they should. But with the BIK and fuel savings then overall for the company and the employee the EV will work out cheaper. That doesn't negate the fact that EV leases should be cheaper than ICE anyway.

That has certainly being our experience last year. Perhaps EV lease prices have now dropped?

 

[Greebo]

but, isn't the allowance(of the type where you personally purchase a car) taxed ? , and you don't get the BIK liability/benefit .

[

December 2022 New Car Registrations

Chip crisis subdues new car market but EVs now second only to petrol

media.smmt.co.uk

While private buyers accounted for more than half of all registrations, fleets and business buyers were responsible for the lion’s share of battery electric vehicles, accounting for two thirds (66.7%) of all BEV registrations and 74.7% of the volume gain in 2022. Delivering the scale and speed of market transition required to meet climate change targets will require action to enthuse more private buyers to go electric.
]

Which will come in the form of fuel duty going up 12p next week. The Govt wont use a carrot now, its stick all the way!