EV general discussion

Hope Electric cars come at a more reasonable price before 2024/25 now that Cardiff Council are announcing plans to introduce a congestion charge to Cardiff, in a bid to put people off driving in and thus making the air cleaner (Yeah right, "Hey Alexa, play Abba Money Money Money")

Exemptions for those who drive Electric cards, So looks like maybe I'll be getting an EV quite soonish if they decide to go ahead with it since I work in Cardiff.
 
Uncle_Gravy said:
Hope Electric cars come at a more reasonable price before 2024/25 now that Cardiff Council are announcing plans to introduce a congestion charge to Cardiff, in a bid to put people off driving in and thus making the air cleaner (Yeah right, "Hey Alexa, play Abba Money Money Money")

Exemptions for those who drive Electric cards, So looks like maybe I'll be getting an EV quite soonish if they decide to go ahead with it since I work in Cardiff.
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You realise the air pollution targets aren't set by the local council (though I can't remember if they're set by UK GOV or EU), and they'll be fined if they don't reduce air pollution (AFAIK)? Has nothing to do with money making.

Just out of interest, what price/cost would you deem reasonable?
 
Uncle_Gravy said:
Hope Electric cars come at a more reasonable price before 2024/25 now that Cardiff Council are announcing plans to introduce a congestion charge to Cardiff, in a bid to put people off driving in and thus making the air cleaner (Yeah right, "Hey Alexa, play Abba Money Money Money")

Exemptions for those who drive Electric cards, So looks like maybe I'll be getting an EV quite soonish if they decide to go ahead with it since I work in Cardiff.
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It's ok I'm sure they will provide a lot more diesel busses and routes.
 
I'm surprised how many people seem to be missing the importance of wireless charging.

From the perspective of managing demand on the grid, and of capitalising on the potential of V2G, the ideal is to have cars connected to power as much as possible. A 250 mile range EV that's travelling 20 miles a day isn't going to be connected to the grid much at all if it involves the driver plugging a cable in. With a 7kW charge rate, it would be maybe 8-10 days between charges.

Without wireless, V2G will be a non-starter. People simply won't bother connecting their car to the grid during the day. The meagre financial incentives aren't enough encouragement. Demand will also be sporadic. Instead of 30 million cars demanding <0.5kW each night, there might be 2 million demanding 7kW on Tuesday, then 5 million demanding the same on Wednesday. It's far, far easier to manage the more even demand.
 
I’m surprised you don’t understand how much harder wireless infrastructure is to fit and how few cars have it. The space underfloor is critical for battery cells. The wireless pad is some what of a corrupter to that space.

The irony of your post is that in terms of managing the grid demand minimising wasted energy is actually the key!
 
Also V2G connectivity will utilise DC connections between the car and the supply. To use wireless in that chain not only means double the losses across the wireless interconnect it means going from AC to DC twice instead of once.

Not exactly consistent with a well managed grid.
 
satchef1 said:
I'm surprised how many people seem to be missing the importance of wireless charging.

From the perspective of managing demand on the grid, and of capitalising on the potential of V2G, the ideal is to have cars connected to power as much as possible. A 250 mile range EV that's travelling 20 miles a day isn't going to be connected to the grid much at all if it involves the driver plugging a cable in. With a 7kW charge rate, it would be maybe 8-10 days between charges.

Without wireless, V2G will be a non-starter. People simply won't bother connecting their car to the grid during the day. The meagre financial incentives aren't enough encouragement. Demand will also be sporadic. Instead of 30 million cars demanding <0.5kW each night, there might be 2 million demanding 7kW on Tuesday, then 5 million demanding the same on Wednesday. It's far, far easier to manage the more even demand.
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Wireless charging is less efficient, there is much more energy loss and also comes with dangers at high voltages. You would be creating quite a powerful electric field which can cause all kinds of havok. It's a long way off yet.
 
Nasher said:
Wireless charging is less efficient, there is much more energy loss and also comes with dangers at high voltages. You would be creating quite a powerful electric field which can cause all kinds of havok. It's a long way off yet.
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Wireless charging isn't as inefficient as many here seem to think. The mistake is quite evident; wireless charging system efficiency figures are given "Grid to Battery". So the comparison should be the "Grid to Battery" efficiency of a conductive EV charging system, not the efficiency of a conductive wire. It's the same mistake that's made when discussing running costs; the "battery to wheel" figure is used.

In the case of BMW's inductive charger, it's roughly 5% to 7% less efficient than a standard EV charger. And there are better prototypes out there, in the 90%-92% efficiency range (i.e. as good as conductive systems). It's early days, but I'd say the signs are encouraging rather than discouraging. Even with a 7% increase in inefficiency over wired, wireless V2G may offer a net improvement if it helps to even out grid demand.

As for the dangers, I only have limited understanding. From what I can gleam, the problems don't appear to be insurmountable.
 
 
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satchef1 said:
How sure are you? :D

BMW's charger is 85% efficient. And Plugless Power's has a similar efficiency at the same rate.

Conductive charging systems are 90% efficient, or the more complicated version.

WiTricity have a 90-93% wireless charger in development. There are others. But I'm not about to do a long list; Google brings them up easily enough.

And wireless charging of EVs has been completed under lab conditions with as high as 97% efficiency
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You lose a lot of energy passing electricity through air. Its physics, what these companies claim and what happens are two different things.

Plus things nearby can start sucking energy up (people actually use this to steal electricity from overhead power cables).
 
jpaul said:
another pertinant article for those exclusively on social media

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/electric-taxis-to-go-wireless-thanks-to-new-charging-tech-trial
- taxi+system, all in ~100K/taxi ... who gets them ?
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I don’t think anyone is denying the tech exists and how it works but what we are saying is it’s really expensive, slower than a rapid charger and not that much more convenient than just plugging in.

For example, instead of spending £3.4 million of public money subsidising the taxi industry for 6 months in Nottingham they could have spent the money installing 20-40 125kw-350kw DC rapid chargers at strategic sites around the city for the exclusive use of taxi drivers. On a 350kw they could go from 5-80% in 15-20 mins (adding close to 200 miles range) while they have their lunch. They’ll be there for a decade plus instead of 6 months. You could even give them a fancy name like ‘taxi hubs’ and use the opportunity to redevelop a few brownfield sites, there’s plenty in the city. You could even go nuts and install a solar panel canopy and sell the energy back to the grid (should be self funding) so the taxi drivers don’t need to stand in the rain while they talk to each other.

Given the vast majority taxi drivers do under 100-120 miles a day the range on a decent EV already covers it so it’s not like they will get used much.

Where’s the value for money there? Getting decent sized charging hubs up and running will do more for electric car adoption than a few wireless charging taxis, just look at Glasgow.
 
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I don’t really care for the links a few minutes of Google results in.

Something about less confidence with wireless too. Easy to sabotage it or even litter might stop the charge! (Walkers crisps packet for example)

just listened to the fully charged talk with local authorities with mark Goodyear hosting it. He’s got two Leafs, a model 3 and EQC. He’s well and truly gone electric.
 
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