EV general discussion

Simon said:
Don't forget the only reason electric is cheaper than fossil for car fuel is taxation...
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Once again make yourself look like silly, and prove you know nothing about what you spew out of your keyboard.

If you took away VAT, Duty, distribution, and retailer profit a single gallon (4.54 litres) is ~£1.30, the average car will travel 45 miles on this amount. Doing the same thing with electricity, since that is only fair, right? The same £1.30 would get you 16.25kW of electricity at 8p (average cost over a day at distribution rates) that 16.25kW would get you a total distance of 56.87 miles with 3.5mpkWh efficiency.

You can leave now, since you are just wasting space and electrons replying.
 
I think you are missing the point I'm not making well. The government currently get a huge amount via fuel duty.

The difference between the two fuels at the moment is huge and with other incentives makes EV very good for Co2 targets and end consumer at the moment. This WILL change in the future due to legislation, the model of fast charging companies and taxation on electricity used for transport

This is just something to think about rather than a disagreement with your points, just this is the goldilocks era for EV ownership.

Your example above would show 57MPG+ cars being cheaper on liquid fuel
 
Its irrelevant though to my mind
The days of ICE cars are ending, sure it may be 50 years, but they are doomed, at least when you consider petrol and diesel
Do we consider hydrogen ICE, even if so, its not the current guise of ICE cars, which are doomed.

The way we are going we are saying they must go for multiple reasons, the two most significant of course being climate change and air quality

The problem for many is getting round the transition, unlearning old habits and learning new ones.

I am certain that in 20/30/40.. years time, when all cars are electric pretty much, but at minimum most places you would park a car you can charge it, young people of today will laugh "do you remember when our dads had to keep going to a petrol station, que up to get fuel, actually pay at the time, and how long they took to fill up, I even remember my mum using the wrong fuel and us being stranded, oh lolz and that time when dad culdnt find a petrol station that was open as most were closing down as they didnt have enough business"

Its going to be interesting on taxation. Will the government just try to bridge the old fuels revenue to electric, or will they charge a different way for transport, higher access fees (such as road duty), or what
Older duties were more focused on picking things harc to avoid and deemed less essential for life, more recent times thats been to focus on things less good for us, and bad for the environment etc (fuel escalator being an example)

The switch to EVs should rebalance that a bit more. But will it, or is it the sort of things thats also going to become a political one. Will the tories tax electricity low, but Labour suddenly put it up. Will we see an attempt to charge more for Ev electric, than domestic electric. Could we see maybe a household electric allowance, which would ensure a small amount is zero tax, then a high tax placed on excess above that point. Its so hard to predict right now.
 
Alternative swing on EV I'm more interested in. 400miles on a refuel apparently. Long way to go before these can be considered however, unless you're within range of one of a few capable hydrogen refilling stations. 2020 Toyota Mirai (Hydrogen).
https://insideevs.com/news/393251/toyota-mirai-preview-revealed-europe/
EV done properly for those who don't want to be constantly tethered by a recharge cable :p or waiting at a service station for the batteries to recharge
 
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per the travel ministers interview of last night , you should probably be using a flybe electric aircraft, for those 400miles ?

If, for wireless you pay for what is sent, it will be in your interest to park accurately, and, also check Nasher has not left his iphone on the charger for a free charge.


with the 2019 government publicity on setting renewable energy records, we nonetheless (versus other eu's ... hang the big ben bong) apparently still have 43% from those 'dinosaurs', so even ev miles are not pure .. let him without a gram of co2 cast the first stone ... is the generation much more fossil biasssed during the night(home charging) too ?
https://www.renewableenergyhub.co.uk/blog/uk-hits-renewable-energy-milestone-in-2019/
The National Grid which is responsible for balancing supply and demand in the UK’s electricity network has revealed figures showing that almost 50% of the country’s energy came from non-polluting sources over the year. Only 43% of the UK’s power came from fossil fuels and 8.5% from biomass and waste. Their data shows that a combination of wind farms, solar and nuclear energy, alongside energy imported by subsea interconnectors accounts for 48.5% of the country’s energy. Figures released by the government show that the UK depended on renewables such as wind and solar for 38.9% of it’s electricity in the third quarter of 2019 which was up by one third for the same period in 2018. Renewable energy has emerged as the UK’s biggest source of power as it moved narrowly ahead of gas-fired power making up 38.8% of the electricity mix.
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I saw an advert for a Vauxhall EV which stated that fossil fuels would be left in the ground. However what parts on an EV won’t be made, designed or shipped using stuff from the petrochemical industry?
 
jpaul said:
per the travel ministers interview of last night , you should probably be using a flybe electric aircraft, for those 400miles ?

If, for wireless you pay for what is sent, it will be in your interest to park accurately, and, also check Nasher has not left his iphone on the charger for a free charge.


with the 2019 government publicity on setting renewable energy records, we nonetheless (versus other eu's ... hang the big ben bong) apparently still have 43% from those 'dinosaurs', so even ev miles are not pure .. let him without a gram of co2 cast the first stone ... is the generation much more fossil biasssed during the night(home charging) too ?
https://www.renewableenergyhub.co.uk/blog/uk-hits-renewable-energy-milestone-in-2019/
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Flybe? Weren't they nearly bust :D. Why would future car use be different than today? Rarely does anyone drive the full range of their car the same day (ie 400 miles). Refuel with hydrogen, that would last me a week of commuting and take not much longer (if anything) than a petrol car to refuel, ie, no hassle of plugging in to recharge for hours on end if indeed you have access to power where you have to park your car. No vast amount of batteries to replace either in future.
 
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vanpeebles said:
I saw an advert for a Vauxhall EV which stated that fossil fuels would be left in the ground. However what parts on an EV won’t be made, designed or shipped using stuff from the petrochemical industry?
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what parts of a current vehicle aren't already?

the BMW i3 everything inside the car is made from recycled parts iirc. the dash, etc.

it's more to do with exhaust fumes, cleaner source of power. as electric is all being moved to renewables and things like solar and wind. windfarms are HUGE at the moment.

so ignore the parts we cannot change but the parts we actually can
 
They will still need fossil fuel made chemicals though. A lot of people seem to think they are made from magic, we would be better looking at reasons why people travel, working practices etc etc. Look at the bigger picture rather than just flogging more cars.
 
It's all one big circular argument, isn't it? Someone should make a flow chart with the answers that we can roll out every time someone brings up the same points- embedded carbon, Hydrogen, lack of charging infrastructure, questioning suitability of batteries for everyday usage, etc, etc...
 
Jonnycoupe said:
I don’t really care for the links a few minutes of Google results in.
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*Posts figures*

"I don't agree with those, you clearly made them up!"

*posts references*

"I don't like those references, so I'm going to ignore them"

:confused:

Regardless of how trustworthy the figures are, I clearly didn't make the numbers up. They're easily referenced by, as you put it, "a few minutes of Google". It's a shame you didn't even put in that cursory effort before calling me out.
 
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Fusion said:
It's all one big circular argument, isn't it? Someone should make a flow chart with the answers that we can roll out every time someone brings up the same points- embedded carbon, Hydrogen, lack of charging infrastructure, questioning suitability of batteries for everyday usage, etc, etc...
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It's clear that there needs to be more than one option in future. I think some are a little too much on the battery rechargeable bandwagon which to me feels a bit of a stopgap. Best option for now anyway but will also puts many at a disadvantage. Those less well off are less likely to have the ability to charge at home. Great for those with a detached house and especially with a garage :)
Whatever the future holds, I doubt motoring will be cheap. The loss of fuel duty will be creamed from other aspects of motoring. £1.80 to recharge at home, £5 as soon as you leave your driveway due to ANPR's everywhere :).
 
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DarrenM343 said:
It's clear that there needs to be more than one option in future. I think some are a little too much on the battery rechargeable bandwagon which to me feels a bit of a stopgap. Best option for now anyway.
Whatever the future holds, I doubt motoring will be cheap. The loss of fuel duty will be creamed from other aspects of motoring. £1.80 to recharge at home, £5 as soon as you leave your driveway due to ANPR's everywhere :).
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You'll find many BEV drivers are just a bit fed up of hearing about how HFCVs are the "next big thing". There are people who have been driving EVs for the best part of a decade, who have been told the entire time that the technology is a "stop gap" while HFCVs mature. Yet in all this time, HFCVs have made minimal progress.

Maybe HFCVs are potentially "better". But BEVs are actually here. And there are observable milestones being passed each year; range is increasing, charging is getting faster, prices are coming down. By comparison, hydrogen development barely moves.
 
Electric will be mainstream before Hydrogen gets a chance to do the same. Doubt it will be supplanted after that. Everyone else will be conventionally fuelled or hybrid.
 
satchef1 said:
*Posts figures*

"I don't agree with those, you clearly made them up!"

*posts references*

"I don't like those references, so I'm going to ignore them"

:confused:

Regardless of how trustworthy the figures are, I clearly didn't make the numbers up. They're easily referenced by, as you put it, "a few minutes of Google". It's a shame you didn't even put in that cursory effort before calling me out.
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That was just a sensible alternative to connect electricity using hard wiring of public transport solutions rather than a lab trials of an application that literally needs the roads torn up.

my EV content is based on discussions with suppliers and technology roadmaps for integration in the next wave of cars. ie. the day job.
 
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