EV general discussion

Nasher said:
It's a boring an un-inspired design though.

They could come up with a nicer shape and better lines. You can have great looking and minimalist.
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Oh, you want different shape? Get a Cybertruck! :D

In seriousness. When you say "better lines", you simply mean more to your own taste. Making things look sharper, adding a grille for no practical purpose (and to the detriment of aerodynamics) just doesn't appeal to everyone and certainly isn't a compromise Tesla would make. I'd personally like to see more differentiation or options for the Performance spec. models so they stand out more from the more basic models. Maybe with the upcoming Plaid Model S they'll do that, perhaps it'll go further down the line to future Model 3/Y variants as well.
 
I find the whole commentary on looks amusing. Clearly looks don't matter to a great deal of people, you only need to look at how many VW Golfs and VW Polo's are sold, which are literally boxes on wheels. I am pretty sure that for the vast majority of the buyers don't really care, and at the price point of a Model 3 for example, it is competing with Audi A4's (boring), BMW 3 series (slightly less boring), and Mercedes C Class (not boring to old men), and a few other vehicles in that price category. Obviously you'll get the odd few who put looks ahead or performance, efficiency and reliability but they are the same people who complain that ca BEV doesn't go 500 miles on a charge, and re-charge in 5 minutes.
 
Yep, it's sad that the road is full of dull cars. But many people go and buy the latest Audi box because they just want the badge for social points.

I think it's funny how they still market themselves as a "premium" brand, even though everyone has one.
 
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the (unattractive) guppy look on a lot of ev's , is, largely a concession to pedestrian protection, if, they don't want to budget for active (pop-up) bonnet systems,
it would be interesting to see the aerodynamics we could have otherwise, or .. just look back.
M3 originally specced for a better cd, but wasn't passenger space the trade-off -(do we know what Y is ) - who is the daddy for CdA product ?
 
jpaul said:
the (unattractive) guppy look on a lot of ev's , is, largely a concession to pedestrian protection, if, they don't want to budget for active (pop-up) bonnet systems,
it would be interesting to see the aerodynamics we could have otherwise, or .. just look back.
M3 originally specced for a better cd, but wasn't passenger space the trade-off -(do we know what Y is ) - who is the daddy for CdA product ?
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Model Y has a Cd of 0.23. Apparently, the lowest is the A-Class saloon of all things- 0.22.
 
Improved cooling and aerodynamic stability/downforce will increase the drag though. So a low number isn't simply a sign of a better design. A very slippery car will likely have cooling issues when driven hard.
 
Fusion said:
Model Y has a Cd of 0.23. Apparently, the lowest is the A-Class saloon of all things- 0.22.
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Yes, the A-class saloon has an incredibly small frontal area at only 1992mm wide inc mirrors, or only 1796mm without them, and excellent design in terms of integration of headlights and great airflow with a sealed underbody.

The efficiency is being upped to ensure the lowest possible CO₂ g/km as the larger fines start to take effect starting this year, however even the lowest A-class petrol engine still puts out 120 g/km, which isn't great considering they need to be hitting 95g/km on average for the year, and with the populace of the most EU countries moving away from diesel, even the lower CO₂ producing version isn't going to help. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing massively discounted diesel variants on offer to try and help lower the totals for the year, and petrol versions being on long lead times to put people off.
 
Journey said:
The efficiency is being upped to ensure the lowest possible CO₂ g/km as the larger fines start to take effect starting this year, however even the lowest A-class petrol engine still puts out 120 g/km, which isn't great considering they need to be hitting 95g/km on average for the year, and with the populace of the most EU countries moving away from diesel, even the lower CO₂ producing version isn't going to help. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing massively discounted diesel variants on offer to try and help lower the totals for the year, and petrol versions being on long lead times to put people off.
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or they start selling EVs as from this year each 0g EV will count as two cars for their fleet average.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
or they start selling EVs as from this year each 0g EV will count as two cars for their fleet average.
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I think they've left it a bit late for that, if they (MB) manage to make and sell 30,000 pure BEV's I'd be astonished, also the offset drops to 1.66 next year, and 1.33 the year after.
 
Fusion said:
Don’t forget plug in hybrids. They tend to have very low CO2 figures.
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Indeed, yet they only seem to offer then in the expensive end of the models, the C300 de is around £48k, not sure about the A250e, but the estimate was £32.5k, so pricing out more A-class buyers, they need them at the £23-25k range where the PCP is in the £299 range, and then there's the fact they aren't available until April-June which gives them 2/3 of a year.
 
Journey said:
I think they've left it a bit late for that, if they (MB) manage to make and sell 30,000 pure BEV's I'd be astonished, also the offset drops to 1.66 next year, and 1.33 the year after.
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they have the EQC and the smart car range. EQC volume was planned for 50k per year!

The only fly in Mercedes plan to assist EU CO2 compliance was Tesla buying Grohmann for their manufacturing automation skills which has massively reduced the pack Mercedes were trying to build as the contract was terminated by Tesla.
 
It's only a surface scratch though.

Mercedes-Benz 2,339,562
smart. 116,781
Mercedes-Benz Cars 2,456,343

That is the worldwide sales for 2019, not sure what the EU total was, but the Smart sales were terrible.
 
This may have been addressed already, but has anyone else noticed the large gulf in terms of performance between the tesla and 'lesser'models cars. My wife has a focus st and there's nothing electric that I would of could replace it with (outside of a tesla). Seems like a hole in the market to me.
 
theone8181 said:
This may have been addressed already, but has anyone else noticed the large gulf in terms of performance between the tesla and 'lesser'models cars. My wife has a focus st and there's nothing electric that I would of could replace it with (outside of a tesla). Seems like a hole in the market to me.
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What part of the cars performance are you specifically talking about?
 
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