EV general discussion

Journey said:
Surely that just means you were in between 'good' tariffs though? Since if you weren't getting the best price per kWh for your normal electricity you were tied in, or didn't shop around?
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Depends if you count tariffs from dubious suppliers or not. IIRC, there wasn't much difference between the tariff I was on and Outfox's price when I made the switch to Go.

I've just looked again and there are some decent deals around now. I could save 0.2p per kWh against my day rate, and 12p per day on my standing charge. Would be worth it if I wasn't getting ~80-100 kWh per week at 5p per kWh.
 
The cells will have a real world useage, battery storage, I dont see many needing to be reclaimed, most will be sold on as lower density storage for permanent installs, houses, grid balancing etc

Once cars start getting to £2k there aren't many that are 1 large bill away from scrap/salvage
I wouldn't spend on a large item on any ice car thats approaching that sort of value without a serious thought on if its worth it. Saying that though, my gut feel is most cars of that sort of value end up leaving the pool from an accident rather than as a major fault issue. I can think of 10-20 in the last few years I know of that have been in accidents (partly age i guess as nephews/nieces/sons/daughters etc of close friends and family), I cant think of one that has needed a major repair.

I don't see the ICE world being any different Specialist breakers and garages for repair will I am sure spring up.
Maybe we will see more better garages, less like a collection of rogues, covered in manky stuff, and more like a decent production facility.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Maybe we will see more better garages, less like a collection of rogues, covered in manky stuff, and more like a decent production facility.
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That or it becomes specialist enough that it's manufacturer-led. If you have a problem with your Tesla then you head to one of their Service Centres. Granted they don't do MOTs (yet) but anything else they do, even down to paintwork.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Can you pop over and check out my 280k 18year old Honda electric traction system. It seems to be working fine but clearly I do need an expert to validate my suspicion.
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If you looked at the Tesla motor teardown, the idea that these will ever become 25year plus collectibles, is doubtful, maybe they have redundant systems, but the aggressive automotive environment (ok not up with space/radiation hardening) will take their toll on the control electronics ( electromigration, nbti)
I have not read what environment was used for the tesla 1million miles experiment.
 
Russinating said:
That or it becomes specialist enough that it's manufacturer-led. If you have a problem with your Tesla then you head to one of their Service Centres. Granted they don't do MOTs (yet) but anything else they do, even down to paintwork.
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There will always be a point where manufacturer specialisation becomes too expensive.
Maybe Tesla will break that mould, but the existing manufacturers will struggle I feel. They are too ingrained in their "ownership experience" model for now. Which you end up paying for too start with via the high labour charge.

I think BEVs will end up the same personally, eventually a point will hit where manufacturer servicing and fault fixing will be more cost effective outside the dealer network.

The point thats reached could have course be very different.
 
Fusion said:
Sigh. Do you think a large electric motor is going to cost a manufacturer the same in 10 or 15 years time? If so, you know nothing about economies of scale.
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Indeed, the cost of batteries is falling.
The cost to repair a motor is low, its a big alternator which are always rebuilt.

With an ICE car it's always a problem as what if something else breaks, you can replace the waterpump but then the exhaust may need replacement soon.
As the car ages the cost to maintain the car steadily increases to a point where the cost of maintenance exceeds the value of the car (excluding consumables)

With an electric car the cost to maintain is theoretically the same wether you do 10 miles in a year or 10,000 miles in a year or 100,000 miles in a year (the only possibility is brakes but with regen even these can last much longer)

There may come a point where you have to replace the batteries or repair the motor but battery health can be managed (your iphone can tell you how worn the battery is) no one can really tell you how worn a carengine is without taking it apart and even still its not an exact science. When that point comines you can replace the motor or battery at very little labour cost due to the simplicity of the design (we all know how much labour is involved in removing and replacing an engine) and have a perfectly functioning car for another 500,000 miles or even longer as the technology to power these things will improve. Imagine in 5 years time new battery technology is launched. you can swap out the pack you have for a new pack that will give you a 1,000 mile range. This kind of thing is impossible with ICE cars.
 
Off the top of my head (IE not actually looked)

Does anybody actually sell conversion kits (Battery/motor packages)?

I have an old VW T3 that I have always been tempted to make into an EV (The space in the engine bay and load area makes all sorts of conversions very easy, some have even put Porche flat 6 boxer engines in them! :cool:)

I had always thought along the lines of getting an old milk float and gutting it for parts but (Surprisingly perhaps) they are now rare and indeed collectable so that option is probably out now.

So EV conversions for older vehicles?

For my purposes, 60 mile range would be just fine, so my requirements are not particularly demanding (I have other vehicles for longer journeys)
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
If only this went 200 (real) miles on a charge....
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Why? So 170+ miles of range can go unused by the average city car driver?

The more the arms race of bigger and bigger ranges goes on between the manufacturers the more I think the Mazda approach makes most sense. IE. Electric won't suit every person all of the time so why try and force it compromising cars in the process with bigger and bigger battery packs? Why not stick to a reasonable electric range for the day to day stuff? Want to go further on a rare occasion... rent a car. Want to go further more regularly... here is the range extender version. Do big mileage all the time... here is an efficient ICE vehicle with mild hybrid setup.
 
I love the fact the honda e can be sensibly charged in 4 hrs and 50kW or 100kW does the job in 30mins... whilst you watch a fish tank or play SNES games.

that turning circle! And frameless doors
 
lordrobs said:
Why? So 170+ miles of range can go unused by the average city car driver?

The more the arms race of bigger and bigger ranges goes on between the manufacturers the more I think the Mazda approach makes most sense. IE. Electric won't suit every person all of the time so why try and force it compromising cars in the process with bigger and bigger battery packs? Why not stick to a reasonable electric range for the day to day stuff? Want to go further on a rare occasion... rent a car. Want to go further more regularly... here is the range extender version. Do big mileage all the time... here is an efficient ICE vehicle with mild hybrid setup.
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This is what I have always felt about EV's

We do not need stupidly expensive EV's that can match an ICE car. (Nor the mind-numbingly expensive facilities that would be required to service them with charge points!)

We need nice cheap ones with a 40 mile (or so) range that are cheap enough to buy to be the second or even third car.

We also need to have a VED/taxation/insurance policy that does not effectively penalise people for having more than one vehicle.

EG, Mr X does 10,000 miles/year.

Why should he pay more in tax/insurance because he spreads this mileage over three vehicles rather than just one??
 
I'm not really getting the fuss over the Honda E.

It's £30k, with only 125 miles of range. And it takes 30 minutes to recharge to 80% on a 100kW charger, suggesting that there's significant charge speed throttling going on. The main selling point seems to be that it's hot-hatch levels of quick.

If it was a Peugeot or a Renault, people would be scratching their heads as to why it isn't £10k cheaper...
 
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lordrobs said:
Why? So 170+ miles of range can go unused by the average city car driver?
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I get its a little 'city car' (stupid name, its just a small car) but people do use them to travel between cities fairly regularly, in an ICE its not a problem. I live in a rural area but I also don't need a huge barge to ferry myself from place to place. But I do travel >100 miles in one go fairly regularly and having to add in a rapid charge into a 2 hour drive is really not ideal.

A genuine 200 miles is fine for my use and isn't anything close to the 'arms race' being suggested. It would will cover 95% of my daily use without having to charge en-route, a 100 mile range will cut that down drastically and make it a right PITA. For me the Model 3 SR+ is to me the perfect compromise between range and charging quickly but its pretty premium price wise and a bigger car than I realistically need.

The Honda E is a very 'pretty' car and ticks a lot of boxes in the styling department, that's the main selling point for me. Cars like the Leaf and Zoe are just boring in comparison. @satchef1 is spot on though, its just far too expensive for what it is.

It 'supports' 100kw charging but it only charges to 80% 60 seconds faster than using at 50kw charger. It's just quick because the battery is small.
 
Followed that on, with their corsa e 50Kw preview https://youtu.be/9X44THYf4tI?t=108

prettier than honda ? maybe they have lost some aerodynamics by adopting the same(ish) chassis/body as the ICE,
the video showing how they shoe-horned the batteries in, seems solid engineering.
at £26K will undercut (bit bigger) golf, and make people think before they get a 'hybrid'

the way they (new to me) present the range is interesting https://ev-database.uk/car/1192/Vauxhall-Corsa-e
Real Range Estimation between 125 - 270 mi
City - Cold Weather * 175 mi
Highway - Cold Weather * 125 mi
Combined - Cold Weather * 150 mi
City - Mild Weather * 270 mi
Highway - Mild Weather * 160 mi
Combined - Mild Weather * 205 mi
Indication of real-world range in several situations. Cold weather: 'worst-case' based on -10°C and use of heating. Mild weather: 'best-case' based on 23°C and no use of A/C. The actual range will depend on speed, style of driving, weather and route conditions
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Speaking of designing an efficient car, I see that Tesla updated their EPA range for the Model Y to 315 miles (336 miles WLTP estimated), which isn't too bad for a horrid crossover type vehicle, and it seems they are now starting deliveries in March albeit in limited quantities, with volume production/deliveries in Q2.
 
I don't know how I'd never noticed this before, but someone just pointed out to me that Tesla has the:

Model S
Model 3
Model X
Model Y

And that the Model 3 was originally meant to be the Model E, except Ford hold a trademark on that name.

So the Tesla range is S3XY. Musk really is a man child, isn't he? :p
 
Nasher said:
If he wants sexy he should change the design from fat Mondeo :D
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Looks are subjective. Plenty of people think they do indeed look S3XY and nothing like a fat Mondeo. Aerodynamic with sleek lines, but some design elements which follow the need for a battery pack and high aerodynamic efficiency. Not everyone likes aggressive-looking cars. To some many cars petrol heads drool over look "busy" and "tacky" compared to the minimalism that Tesla goes for. Different strokes for different folks.
 
PCM2 said:
Looks are subjective. Plenty of people think they do indeed look S3XY and nothing like a fat Mondeo. Aerodynamic with sleek lines, but some design elements which follow the need for a battery pack and high aerodynamic efficiency. Not everyone likes aggressive-looking cars. To some many cars petrol heads drool over look "busy" and "tacky" compared to the minimalism that Tesla goes for. Different strokes for different folks.
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It's a boring an un-inspired design though.

They could come up with a nicer shape and better lines. You can have great looking and minimalist.
 
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