EV general discussion

Jonnycoupe · 2 Feb 2020 at 19:46

theone8181 said:
This may have been addressed already, but has anyone else noticed the large gulf in terms of performance between the tesla and 'lesser'models cars. My wife has a focus st and there's nothing electric that I would of could replace it with (outside of a tesla). Seems like a hole in the market to me.

How much you spending? The Taycan & I-PACE are fast.

Journey · 2 Feb 2020 at 19:48

Jonnycoupe said:
Not sure that constitutes terrible either.

Well since we were talking about off setting the other sales 116k vs 2.3 million is terrible

Jonnycoupe · 2 Feb 2020 at 20:39

Can’t imagine they had even tooled up and engaged suppliers to make 200k Smarts. For context that’s a similar figure to Discovery Sports.

McPhee · 2 Feb 2020 at 22:58

theone8181 said:
This may have been addressed already, but has anyone else noticed the large gulf in terms of performance between the tesla and 'lesser'models cars. My wife has a focus st and there's nothing electric that I would of could replace it with (outside of a tesla). Seems like a hole in the market to me.

In terms of acceleration, the BMW i3s in in the same ballpark. The Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Kona, and likely others are ~1s slower.

Doubt there will be a proper "hot hatch" style EV for a while though.

theone8181 · 3 Feb 2020 at 07:17

satchef1 said:
In terms of acceleration, the BMW i3s in in the same ballpark. The Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Kona, and likely others are ~1s slower.

Doubt there will be a proper "hot hatch" style EV for a while though.

I'm excluding pointless suvs as a choice

. I did see the i3, but theres no way she'd be caught dead driving that thing, not sure why they had to make it so box like. Obviously a taycan is fast, but at 80 grand its a bit different to the cost of a focus isn't it

.

Nasher · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:01

theone8181 said:
This may have been addressed already, but has anyone else noticed the large gulf in terms of performance between the tesla and 'lesser'models cars. My wife has a focus st and there's nothing electric that I would of could replace it with (outside of a tesla). Seems like a hole in the market to me.

Teslas seem quick on paper but its their one party trick, after 60 they run out of puff. They dont exactly corner well either.

Atm though EVs are really to heavy to make a worthy hot hatch. The i3 is about as close as you can get

Journey · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:22

theone8181 said:
I'm excluding pointless suvs as a choice. I did see the i3, but theres no way she'd be caught dead driving that thing, not sure why they had to make it so box like. Obviously a taycan is fast, but at 80 grand its a bit different to the cost of a focus isn't it.

It's funny really as a majority of current BEV's are much faster than any ICE car 0-30 MPH, and 0-50 MPH which is the majority of the acceleration done in vehicles being driven on a day to day basis. That is why I asked what sort of performance, but you didn't respond. Have you or your Mrs even test drove a BEV to see what they are capable of, or just looked at numbers on paper?

Simon · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:37

Let’s be honest the i3 is nothing like a Tesla. They seem very top heavy and handle badly in my experience. The 5 inch wide wheels don’t help and don’t know if it was the one I had or all of them but the brakes were terrible. The 0-30 was ok compared to other cars but the M3 obviosuly would still leave it. Once rolling it was quite a novelty zooming along without any noise but the range soon plummets driving like that.

The worse bit about that car was the way to front seat belts are attached to the rear door. So if anyone gets in the back you have to take the seatbelt off or be strangled

EVs are meant to be good for emissions but the tyre wear on them if people do contant 0-30 does cause a lot of particulates. BMW also reduced the power ramping on the i3 as the motor mounts kept breaking

jpaul · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:38

theone8181 said:
but has anyone else noticed the large gulf in terms of performance between the tesla and 'lesser'models cars.

maybe waiting for introduction of ev gearboxes, (with some trade-off of it's weight, against a smaller motor too), so the ev's can maintain the power at higher speeds,
their motors do have 25 % power drop off at high revs, unlike ice (even w/o a gearbox)

... maybe not for urban, but safe overtaking is where it counts no ?- max torque at start off less so, I'm not a drag racer.

Jez · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:43

Nasher said:
Teslas seem quick on paper but its their one party trick, after 60 they run out of puff. They dont exactly corner well either.

Atm though EVs are really to heavy to make a worthy hot hatch. The i3 is about as close as you can get

This just isnt true? There are loads of tests showing Tesla cars outperforming cars such as the BMW M3 in almost every regard. On track the (BMW) M3 is described as feeling "glacial" in one of them as the Model 3 runs around it. You hear this one trick pony thing a lot regarding Tesla but i really dont think that it is fair, it is picked on because they are just so fast in this regard.

bimbleuk · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:48

Nasher said:
Teslas seem quick on paper but its their one party trick, after 60 they run out of puff. They dont exactly corner well either.

Atm though EVs are really to heavy to make a worthy hot hatch. The i3 is about as close as you can get

Not exactly the i3 has good acceleration up to 70 mph before it noticeably tails towards the 93 mph limit. The SR+ has very linear acceleration. There's some torque limitation initially then it hits a peak and gently tails off but with a 140 mph limit it's still plenty fast enough up to illegal speeds!

Nasher · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:50

Jez said:
This just isnt true? There are loads of tests showing Tesla cars outperforming cars such as the BMW M3 in almost every regard. On track the (BMW) M3 is described as feeling "glacial" in one of them as the Model 3 runs around it. You hear this one trick pony thing a lot regarding Tesla but i really dont think that it is fair, it is picked on because they are just so fast in this regard.

I dont think there is even an "official" hot lap time for the model 3 on the ring. Previous models couldnt make it to the end without overheating. So its hars to tell. Estimates place it around the same as an old R33 Skyline GTR, which isnt anything special by modern standards.

Jez · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:52

Ive not looked in that much detail but how often would you ever drive it that hard for such a prolonged period? On normal tracks it is a really impressively fast car in all regards. Better than all but genuine supercar ICE cars. Hardly fair to call it a one trick pony not even worthy of being called a hot hatch is it?

mjt · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:52

Simon said:
Let’s be honest the i3 is nothing like a Tesla. They seem very top heavy and handle badly in my experience. The 5 inch wide wheels don’t help and don’t know if it was the one I had or all of them but the brakes were terrible. The 0-30 was ok compared to other cars but the M3 obviosuly would still leave it. Once rolling it was quite a novelty zooming along without any noise but the range soon plummets driving like that.

The worse bit about that car was the way to front seat belts are attached to the rear door. So if anyone gets in the back you have to take the seatbelt off or be strangled

EVs are meant to be good for emissions but the tyre wear on them if people do contant 0-30 does cause a lot of particulates. BMW also reduced the power ramping on the i3 as the motor mounts kept breaking

The centre of gravity in the i3 is very low due to the battery placement. You sit very high though, which is what makes it a not-very-sporty driving experience. The 5J wheels also don't help!
If you drive an i3 properly then you don't ever need to touch the brakes. I bought mine with 25,000 miles on the clock and the discs look brand new. Anticipate and use the regen.
As for the belts, you need to open the front doors to open the suicide rear doors anyway, so that's not an issue. Just say you don't like the car; it's fine

For my purposes it's perfect. It'll out-accelerate most things and it's perfect for my 30-minute town commute. Range sucks on the pre-facelift but I just plug it in every night.

Jonnycoupe · 3 Feb 2020 at 08:55

The motors are power rated for peak which is 10 or 30seconds. Continuous ratings are much lower so you can’t compare to ICE

Hawk Tuah · 3 Feb 2020 at 09:11

Simon said:
Let’s be honest the i3 is nothing like a Tesla.

I think he was saying the i3 was comparable with Focus ST the poster mentioned.

Jonnycoupe · 3 Feb 2020 at 09:34

Nasher said:
I dont think there is even an "official" hot lap time for the model 3 on the ring. Previous models couldnt make it to the end without overheating. So its hars to tell. Estimates place it around the same as an old R33 Skyline GTR, which isnt anything special by modern standards.

so the model S and Taycan battle and the Plaid versions has completely passed you by hasn’t it?

theone8181 · 3 Feb 2020 at 12:54

Journey said:
It's funny really as a majority of current BEV's are much faster than any ICE car 0-30 MPH, and 0-50 MPH which is the majority of the acceleration done in vehicles being driven on a day to day basis. That is why I asked what sort of performance, but you didn't respond. Have you or your Mrs even test drove a BEV to see what they are capable of, or just looked at numbers on paper?

TBH i just watched a video and i agree 0-30 they are quick but after that they seem lacking (i drive an M3 for reference). The leaf's and others that are a bit lower power do seem a lot slower and i'd be surprised if they were faster 0-30 against the focus. I've not test driven any (although i wouldn't mind a go in the porsche).

Hawk Tuah · 3 Feb 2020 at 13:53

theone8181 said:
TBH i just watched a video and i agree 0-30 they are quick but after that they seem lacking (i drive an M3 for reference). The leaf's and others that are a bit lower power do seem a lot slower and i'd be surprised if they were faster 0-30 against the focus. I've not test driven any (although i wouldn't mind a go in the porsche).

The majority of driving is not conducted like a drag race though. ICE drivers don't sit at the lights with their engine pinging off the limiter waiting to initiate launch control.

What you get with BEV is instant and effortless torque, without gear changes. My leaf may only be an 11 second car, but I very rarely get beaten off the line. I'd love to see what a Kona (7 second) is like. Must be a right laugh, because 90% of drivers wouldn't expect it.

sovietspybob · 3 Feb 2020 at 14:08

I think that's the big difference with electric cars, for an example my old Subaru Impreza would do 0-60 in under 5 seconds BUT i probably only did that once or twice the entire time i owned the car as you had to bounce it off the limiter, dump the clutch and slam shift it through the gears to keep it in between peak torque & power. Whereas in an electric car you can access that performance instantly whenever you want so they're far far quicker than an ICE car in the real world.

The model 3 i had a passenger ride in certainly felt faster than my old Impreza and rode a lot better as well.