EV general discussion

Nasher said:
And they will likely be insanely expensive. There is no way they will be able to make lightweight EVs either.
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Most people just want a car to drive to the shops and work, not lap the Nurburgring with a new fastest lap.
Also, Bill Gates once said "640K ought to be enough for anybody.", your post feels like another one of those fails….. but less famous :p
 
Nasher said:
And they will likely be insanely expensive. There is no way they will be able to make lightweight EVs either.
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At the moment and for the next few years that is certainly the case. To be fair Lotus haven’t made lightweight cars like they used to for a long time. The latest Emira is 1405kg (about 350-400 kg less than an Model 3) if you can actually believe Lotus’s numbers, they are notorious for massaging them down and are really quite a bit more in reality.

EVs have become cheaper recently. VW are operating well in that space. £32k (£9k more than a base Golf) for a 340 mile range car is good.
 
Nasher said:
Thats a lot of a eco mobile though. The ID3 etc arent even that great, really dull and characterless appliances.
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I guess you meant “for” Thats pretty much their brief. Everyone knows for TCO you don’t really use the retail price anyway, especially when bill are financed.

We get it, but kid, you ain’t gonna do anything about it here. So it’s a pointless sky is falling grumpy old man post.

Do you work in Government? No
Do you work at a car manufacturer? No.
Did you recently buy a new car? No.

So there’s no credible reason for you to be satisfied.
 
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ICDP said:
I often wonder why people who hate EVs are so active on this part of the forum.
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Insecure in the fact they were wrong about EV's replacing fossil fuel burning monstrosities. They probably think smoking is modern and good for you as well.
 
delta0 said:
At the moment and for the next few years that is certainly the case. To be fair Lotus haven’t made lightweight cars like they used to for a long time. The latest Emira is 1405kg (about 350-400 kg less than an Model 3) if you can actually believe Lotus’s numbers, they are notorious for massaging them down and are really quite a bit more in reality.

EVs have become cheaper recently. VW are operating well in that space. £32k (£9k more than a base Golf) for a 340 mile range car is good.
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That's if you believe the Tesla stats too :). I think they're all someway off, depending on the spec of the car (the largest wheels will be somewhat heavier than smallest for example). Getting weight down without sacrificing rigidity is key and for that more exotic materials might be required - £££. I think Tesla are trying something with the battery forming part of the chassis (next Model 3?) so that'll be good to see how much it saves weight. Rigidity is rarely talked about however but can affect how a car drives and the suspension setups that can be used
 
DarrenM343 said:
That's if you believe the Tesla stats too :). I think they're all someway off, depending on the spec of the car (the largest wheels will be somewhat heavier than smallest for example). Getting weight down without sacrificing rigidity is key and for that more exotic materials might be required - £££. I think Tesla are trying something with the battery forming part of the chassis (next Model 3?) so that'll be good to see how much it saves weight. Rigidity is rarely talked about however but can affect how a car drives and the suspension setups that can be used
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From what I’ve seen from owners the real weight (from a weigh bridge) of the Model 3 was 8 kg less than the stated value so they are pretty spot on. It’s not like they can drain the liquids out to save a load of weight is it! I think it will be a while before we see the structural battery in the 3. Probably the Y first.
 
Plenty of people have put them on weigh bridges so I’d be inclined to :p

The dedicated EV platforms do better with weight, it tends to be the hybrid platforms that don’t (E.g. i4 is 400kg heavier than a TM3).

The ‘structural’ battery pack is more about cost saving than anything else, and weight savings and structural improvements will be incidental.
 
The EV also have a LOT of sound dampening materials stuck in them which doesnt help, otherwise all you'd get is horrible road noise. That stuff is really heavy.
 
How is that any different to a normal car?

Nearly all cars have sound dampening material to deaden the sound of the engine and road noise. The road noise is no louder than any other car. Engines at cruise are general quieter than the road noise at the speed limit.

Here’s a shovel so you can keep digging…
 
EVs are usually heavier making it worse. Also people want them to be very quiet, there is no nice engine note to hear. The motors also need to be very soundproofed or you get that horrendous squeal like in EV race cars.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Plenty of people have put them on weigh bridges so I’d be inclined to :p

The dedicated EV platforms do better with weight, it tends to be the hybrid platforms that don’t (E.g. i4 is 400kg heavier than a TM3).

The ‘structural’ battery pack is more about cost saving than anything else, and weight savings and structural improvements will be incidental.
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Fair enough if weigh bridges used to confirm the weight and I suppose the Tesla spec can't be changed too much to vary the weight of the final on the road product. Just doubtful of manufacturers stats :)
i4 M50 seems a great EV but is a bit of a barge but still very fast. I prefer the slightly lighter 2WD but deliveries are running past November 2022 already on i4's now with huge demand
 
Yup, agreed the i40 40 looks like a really good car and it’s good to see some direct competition to Tesla and Polestar in that segment. It’s just a shame that they will not make enough of them.

The packages for all 3 are very compelling, but also offer different things at slightly different price points. Well perhaps the i4 and the polestar 2 are more similar compared to the Model 3 but they still have a very different look and feel about them.
 
The thing with the TM3 and Model Y being ligher is quite a lot less soundproofin materials. They are quite loud at motorway speeds compared to most cars, and not just EVs. Apart from Tesla, OEM EVs do not get any more or less soundproofing materials compared to equivalent ICE cars.
 
Nasher said:
EVs are usually heavier making it worse. Also people want them to be very quiet, there is no nice engine note to hear. The motors also need to be very soundproofed or you get that horrendous squeal like in EV race cars.
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That's why most people listen to the radio or play music when they drive. Don't need a smelly engine making noise. If you really don't like EVs maybe you should try one or just stop posting in this thread.
 
New Model S was something like 300 pounds lighter then before (Plaid vs Raven) so they are working on it. Tesla are using even more large castings in all their cars from the recent Munro Live plaid tear down.

We'll see sometime this year when a 4680 cell structural battery is combined with the front and rear structural castings. Increased torsional rigidity, improve manufacturing tolerance, reduced structural weight. Then they can play around with more range or smaller battery packs. Maybe even start to use LFP packs in dual motor cars. From what I've gleaned the LFP packs will only be blade or prismatic though.
 
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