EV general discussion

jpaul said:
yes - whether the increase in wltp will provide a significant range increase at 70mph ? (drag force is increasing squared with the velocity not cubic as I wrongly said)
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At 70mph, drag is the most significant factor which impacts efficiency, the faster you go, the bigger the gap in efficiency relative to the existing model.
 
Outside of OC wiki world, I'm apparently not alone with confusing physics eg. highlander EPA estimates https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-3-highland-range-test/
Here's what we can say right now: Based on the indicated ranges, the rear-wheel-drive Tesla Model 3 Standard Range will be rated for around 261 miles and the Model 3 Dual-Motor Long Range will land around 337 miles. The 2023 versions of these cars are rated for 272 miles and 333 miles, respectively, which suggests that the Model 3 Standard Range might actually get a worse rating than the car it replaces.
...
That's surprising, since the batteries and motors are unchanged and Tesla claims the updated Model 3 is more aerodynamic than the outgoing model. It's possible (but unlikely, we think) that new features like acoustically insulated glass and the rear touchscreen display have pushed the Model 3 into a higher weight class for EPA testing. We think it's more likely that Tesla is simply underpromising right now so that it can overdeliver when the official numbers drop
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other people are clutching at strawmen.
 
It’s not a straw man, they have done exactly that before. Some may say it’s prudent to give a number that is lower before it’s been officially tested.

No one is going to complain that the range is higher once the official EPA numbers are released but they sure will if they are lower.
 
jpaul said:
Outside of OC wiki world, I'm apparently not alone with confusing physics eg. highlander EPA estimates https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-3-highland-range-test/


other people are clutching at strawmen.
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Or they have just done a change to the EPA generic 0.77 they have been enjoying for years and to move from 0.7 to something else they can apply to the EPA rating they need to demonstrate the performance of the 5 cycle test rather than 2 cycle which includes -7C

But you knew that already whilst throwing around the word strawmen in the worse misuse context I’ve seen for years…
 
A great 2 year lease deal came up for a GV70 electric + Innovation pack, which looked surprisingly good.

Then you look at the specs list and they don't even include heated front seats! On a £65,000 'premium' SUV

Also the range is pretty much the same as my Polestar 2 - Though unlike that it does have an 800v system and DC fast charges at 240Kw (my Polestar doesn't get anywhere near that)

Shame, the fully specced up model with V2L, panoramic roof etc looks decent. Not sure if they are adding wireless android auto (I know the Ionic 5N is getting it) but that would be good also.
 
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List prices are just daft tho at the moment, base spec C class PHEV is 52k. E class is nearly 70k for the PHEV.
 
Yup, and the manufacturers collectively are to blame for that.

The only ones who don’t do it are those with direct sales models, E.g. Polestar, Tesla etc.
 
Tinders said:
True, but for the company car driver, the tax is based on list price :(
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At such a low rate compared with an often more suitable petrol alternative that it's almost irrelevant, encouraging more people to drive around at 25 miles per gallon with empty batteries they never charge and manufacturers to withdraw the petrol alternatives from sale.

So, not really much sympathy for the company car driver, sorry :p
 
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[TW]Fox said:
He gave the example of Mercedes-Benz, who have high list prices and moved to direct sales...?
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I hate to be pedantic but, I never said everyone that uses direct sales models doesn’t have high list prices and then discounts heavily.

I said the only manufacturers that don’t follow that practice use a direct sale model.

Perhaps I should have said ‘that’s a legacy auto pricing model’ and they’ve got themselves into a hole because of it.

Either way, my view is that if Mercedes and co genuinely think their cars are worth that price, they should stand by the price. The reality is that it isn’t and if they stood by the price, their sales would tank overnight.
 
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VincentHanna said:
A great 2 year lease deal came up for a GV70 electric + Innovation pack, which looked surprisingly good.

Then you look at the specs list and they don't even include heated front seats! On a £65,000 'premium' SUV

Also the range is pretty much the same as my Polestar 2 - Though unlike that it does have an 800v system and DC fast charges at 240Kw (my Polestar doesn't get anywhere near that)

Shame, the fully specced up model with V2L, panoramic roof etc looks decent. Not sure if they are adding wireless android auto (I know the Ionic 5N is getting it) but that would be good also.
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It's scandelous what some companies are charging for 'premium' features. It was partly what pushed us toward the Q8 over an Enyak. At least even the base spec Q8 car has heated front seats, full leather interior and a heat pump.
 
Yup GV70 pricing is madness, it's like the German pricing of old where everything good is optioned. I had pre-ordered one before the prices came out on the assumption it'd be a pricier Kiundai but still have all the gear for the base price, when the list came out I laughed and when my personal Genesis assistant rang I cancelled, I had 4 other cars on order that had all the gear for less whilst I was playing whatever comes first I'll buy game, blooming shortages :D
 
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There seems to be so much of this now. Almost everything I see on Marketplace now is ridiculously priced and clearly a scam. I don't remember it being this bad a few years go.
 
Isn't Mercedes high rrp just try and sustain the 2nd hand market values though - they either lease them, themselves, or supply a discounted car to a leasing company,
(so the consumer never sees the real price , ) then put the used car back into their garages & AUC, for a second bite;
Versus tesla, or polestar (would they lease you a car themselves), who are less concerned about 2nd hand gravy train.

Jonnycoupe said:
Or they have just done a change to the EPA generic 0.77 they have been enjoying for years and to move from 0.7 to something else they can apply to the EPA rating they need to demonstrate the performance of the 5 cycle test rather than 2 cycle which includes -7C
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I didn't know their calculation
It seems a bit arbitrary the 0.7 fudge factor applied in the EPA calculation to the high & low speed cycles (guess its based on heuristics from the full 5 cycle for other vehicles)
having a separate highway test though @50mph, and accompanying disclsosed epa seems one up on WLTP.
do you think WLTP is a more useful consumer measure than EPA ?

(for others interested -scanned this too https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fuel-economy-and-ev-range-testing)
 
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