EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
Tbf I don't think they do too badly with just those two models. Sure they both make the top 15 best selling vehicles globally?
But yeah huge gamble on Optimus
It’s hard to see how you can compete as a manufacturer long term without a full size and mid sized ‘SUV’ in 2026, let alone the verity you get from almost all other manufacturers.
Sales of the S and X have been very slow for years for years.
They had the opportunity to produce a more conventional mass market large SUV back when they discontinued the original X in the U.K.
Instead they launched the 1000bhp Plaid with a refreshed interior. The car has too many gimmicks which has ultimately killed it because it is simply too expensive.
The Y ‘L’ they have launched in China is much closer to where the X should have gone.
Sales of the S and X have been very slow for years for years.
They had the opportunity to produce a more conventional mass market large SUV back when they discontinued the original X in the U.K.
Instead they launched the 1000bhp Plaid with a refreshed interior. The car has too many gimmicks which has ultimately killed it because it is simply too expensive.
The Y ‘L’ they have launched in China is much closer to where the X should have gone.
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*For now.
That's the caveat though. Whilst Tesla treads water or slowly innovates, it's competitors are surely catching up/passing it.
Fingers crossed! Although it seems the Chinese manufacturers may end up dominating
Tesla has certainly been the benchmark for EVs to aim for
Caporegime
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I read the BBC report. Maybe it doesn't go in to enough detail but the summary seems to be:
Tesla lost 3% revenue
Profits down 62%
Scrapping 2 car lines to make robots
Musk invested Tesla money in xAI, against the majority of shareholders wishes.
And stocks went up 2% on this news....
Remember when the stock market made sense?
I wonder how the Model Ys fare here in the UK considering they are reaching their first MOT age here. I do know that typically older Tesla’s were renowned for poor build quality and that is reflected in a generally higher MOT 1st failure rate. But 45% at 4 years is shocking. I know the UK is 3 years (4 in N Ireland), so the typical 23% failure rates for 3 year old Model 3s is also poor.
cphpost.dk
thedanishdream.com
Allegedly similarly high failure rates for Model Ys in Belgium and Germany. The Model 3 failure rates were 33% for the same age allegedly.
45% of Tesla Model Y failed inspection last year - The Copenhagen Post
According to an analysis of inspection data by FDM, nearly half of Tesla’s popular Model Y cars failed their mandatory inspections last year. Specifically, of the 2,394 Model Y cars from 2021 that were inspected for the first time last year, 1,069 failed, resulting in a failure rate of 45%...
cphpost.dk
Nearly Half of Teslas Fail Inspection in Denmark
Almost 50 percent of Teslas in Denmark flunk recent safety inspections, spotlighting recurring faults in braking, lighting and suspension. These findings fuel fresh concerns about Tesla’s build quality and reliability in Europe’s fast-growing EV market.
thedanishdream.com
Allegedly similarly high failure rates for Model Ys in Belgium and Germany. The Model 3 failure rates were 33% for the same age allegedly.
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Could it also be down to the fact they never have to be serviced if the owner doesn't fancy it, so things that would get picked up in the possibly 3/4 services other EVs have had in that time just get missed.I wonder how the Model Ys fare here in the UK considering they are reaching their first MOT age here. I do know that typically older Tesla’s were renowned for poor build quality and that is reflected in a generally higher MOT 1st failure rate. But 45% at 4 years is shocking. I know the UK is 3 years (4 in N Ireland), so the typical 23% failure rates for 3 year old Model 3s is also poor.
45% of Tesla Model Y failed inspection last year - The Copenhagen Post
According to an analysis of inspection data by FDM, nearly half of Tesla’s popular Model Y cars failed their mandatory inspections last year. Specifically, of the 2,394 Model Y cars from 2021 that were inspected for the first time last year, 1,069 failed, resulting in a failure rate of 45%...
Nearly Half of Teslas Fail Inspection in Denmark
Almost 50 percent of Teslas in Denmark flunk recent safety inspections, spotlighting recurring faults in braking, lighting and suspension. These findings fuel fresh concerns about Tesla’s build quality and reliability in Europe’s fast-growing EV market.
Allegedly similarly high failure rates for Model Ys in Belgium and Germany. The Model 3 failure rates were 33% for the same age allegedly.
Soldato
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Not sure as ive only had the car for 6 months, but the date codes on the rear tyres certainly lead me to believe they're the original ones, they've still got about 4mm left
The fronts look to have been replaced once and have about 5mm left, so i'd guess the original user got about 25-30k out of them. It did just under 43k in 2 years so must have been a lot of motorway miles.
Soldato
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I am no expert so if someone wants to tell me I am talking .... so be it, but I was under the impression that because the power delivery of an EV was incredibly smooth and almost uniform
compared to a performant ICE vehicle which have a surge of torque in very narrow bands (so kind of jolting the car when driven aggressively on gear changes) that clams that the general higher torque of an EV cause excess tyre and increase road wear and tear was not so simple.
(for instance in the wet or ice in my nissan 350z even with traction control I would sometimes wheel spin slightly, however I don't think I have ever done that in my ipace or my wife's i3) -maybe I just don't drive hard enough any more post child and now over the hill.
as for regen. surely it depends how it is set up? I used to have 1 pedal driving on my ipace but I turned it off as I decided I enjoy it more without it.
now my car "coasts" almost the same as an ICE car with the regen very light to simulate engine braking....... the regen only kicks in more forcefully when I put my foot on the brake, so any tyre work would surely be the same as with an ICE at that point ?
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I was about to post effectively this, the first MOT is probably the first time anyone will have ever looked at anything other than than washing it.
The early cars are renown for eating their suspension bushes which were seemingly made from cream cheese.
Otherwise the reliability on the 3/Y is actually very good and they stand up to high mileage very well.
The Model S and X are also pretty reliable outside of stupid things like self presenting door handles on the S and the wing doors on the X.
All the Gen1 Model S would have suffered (nvidia based) infotainment failures by now also due to a wearing out the MMC memory chip or LCD screen failure (they leak all the liquid). Most people would have upgraded to the gen2 Intel based infotainment screens before this happened to get the latest software, but the ones that didn’t will have post failure.
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The linearity helps, but higher torque vehicles ICE or EV will still eat tyres more than a typical ICE car, depending a bit on driving style.
With the motors the traction systems on an EV can much more quicker react to prevent things like wheelspin - but that does put more demand on the tyres none the less. (As an aside my Navara is hilarious for wheelspin if you reverse without weight in the back - with the RWD + lack of weight over the wheels + 550nm torque even from low revs).
Typically it is less of an issue if you use tyres well matched to the demands of an EV, but EVs will typically be less forgiving on tyres which are less ideally matched to the requirements when it comes to things like rolling resistance.
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Caporegime
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@Rroff
In theory maybe, in practise I was permanently using the fun pedal on my Polestar 2 which had about 460 bhp and never had to change the tyres in 25k miles other than a puncture in one.
In theory maybe, in practise I was permanently using the fun pedal on my Polestar 2 which had about 460 bhp and never had to change the tyres in 25k miles other than a puncture in one.
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But how many miles would you have got out of the same tyres on an approx. equivalent ICE in comparison? I'm not saying tyres don't last long on an EV but they do when all else is equal tend to wear quicker and EVs are definitely less forgiving if you chuck just any old tyres on them than an ICE would be.
Soldato
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Yep. I covered it before with that very poster. Seems he took nothing from it.
You don’t have to manage drivetrain slip, combustion events shock loading tyre blocks or the rotating mass of a full engine and gear set. It’s better in every way.
Lots of traction control intervention wears out BRAKES not tyres.
Basically it’s someone describing their lack of knowledge as fact, last time I called it out o got grief so I’ll let you form your own views.
FACT. My IPACE had new 22” summer tyres at 30k. My F type were pretty much done at 8k
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Soldato
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even if true at what point does it not really matter any more.
are you talking at it from a financial perspective or environmental?.
if financial then - esp now EVs are close to purchase parity with ICE cars when new then - at least until the government start taxing them per mile - and assuming they don't somehow also hammer fuel costs more as well - then any increased costs due to a few less miles on tyres will be more than covered by not needing to worry about exhaust systems, cambelts, brake disks/ pads etc.
and if talking environmental then again any reduced brake dust and zero tail pipe emissions should more than cover that !.
when I got my 1st EV I must admit I was worried after reading all the horror stories and yet 3 years in I have bought 1 set of tyres and they still have loads of tread in them. (when I bought it I tried to get the seller to replace the tyres as they were past their best, and yet they lasted 18 months.
my wife's i3 is RWD and has pram wheels and I must admit am not expecting them to last that long, that said in almost 20,000 miles we have only replaced the rear tyres once, not touched the front and the rears were far from full tread when we bought the car, and still have plenty of life left in them.
I dunno what people expect out of car tyres so good wear from 1 person may not be the same to another... but if I can get 30,000 miles out of my ipace on a set and 20000 out of the rears on the i3 (and more on the front) I am not gonna grumble.
biggest threat to longevity of our tyres ICE or EV is the state of our roads imo
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None of that - my original comment was general commentary in response to Simon commenting about why tyres would last any less than an ICE in a specific context, where factually in that context there is a difference - whether it is important is another matter, but the more crucial point was Simon mistyped FWD as RWD and it changed the context and so was largely irrelevant in the context they actually meant.
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EVs can use the motors to modulate power in a way an ICE can not - which can give better traction control but which also biases the wear to the tyres rather than the brakes - this actually results in overall less significant traction control intervention at a slight cost to tyre wear.
Which as an addendum to the previous conversation is why they are better up to a point in snow but become more hit and miss VS ICE when conditions exceed the abilities of the software and why, something you seem ignorant of, some EVs have things like slip-start programs to try and compensate (hence being more hit and miss as if you lack those features you are much more likely to be out of luck vs an ICE where you may still be able to manually drive your way out).
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Caporegime
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Speaking of tyres, where is the best place to sell them?
I took the original 19" tyres on my GV70 off at about 5k and they were replaced with Michelin cross climate 2s.
They have been safely stored in my garage since - They must be worth a few hundred quid at least?
I took the original 19" tyres on my GV70 off at about 5k and they were replaced with Michelin cross climate 2s.
They have been safely stored in my garage since - They must be worth a few hundred quid at least?