EV general discussion

[b0rn2sk8]

While technically true, it's a bit misleading no?

Only if you take the post out of context. I did say ‘pretty much all’ not all.

Likewise I was responding to the person who is currently leading a brand new car, the chances of them going to a 2k banger are pretty slim.

Yes, you can buy an old "banger" of a Leaf or Zoe with 100k miles for £2-3k, but anyone doing so with the intention of using that as their only family car is in for a world of pain - at that price point you'd be mad to go for an EV over an ICE (obviously they're ideal if you're getting one for a second car as a cheap local runaround and have a suitable main car for longer journeys).

A £2-3k ICE car is cheap to buy but they are not usually cheap to own.

Even historically cheap ICE cars to run now come with complex more drivetrains with things like wet belts, turbos etc. which come with huge servicing bills when the inevitable belt change becomes due.

The days of a small hatch with a relatively simple 4 pot NA engine are long gone. Cars now entering the cheaper end of the used market are not getting very complicated.

For a more realistic option, you're looking at closer to £6k for an MG5 or 50kw Zoe (I've discounted the 40kw Leaf and Zoe due to poor public charging provision).

I don’t disagree but the sub £6k market in ICE world doesn’t exactly excite either for the reasons I set out above.

That segment is going to get really fun once the cars with mandated AEB, lane departure systems and other ADAS stuff etc get down to those prices because all those systems will need to work or it’s an MOT fail.

The fancy LED matrix headlights (or just LED headlights generally) will be feeding into this segment after that.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I'd guess that's a (poorly thought out) policy thing to stop collection drivers getting stranded with no way to charge (obviously tethered public chargers don't exist)

Like the collection driver will be using a slow type 2 to collect the car?

Time is money at the end of the day and no one’s paying someone to sit at an AC charger for 4 hours.

All rapid chargers are tethered.

 

[Kenai]

Like the collection driver will be using a slow type 2 to collect the car?

Time is money at the end of the day and no one’s paying someone to sit at an AC charger for 4 hours.

All rapid chargers are tethered.

I clearly didn't make the sarcasm obvious enough

Though on a more serious note it really wouldn't surprise me if once upon a time a collection driver picked up a car with no cable, it had about 2% charge left, they drove it straight onto a motorway or something like a complete moron ran out of battery and caused chaos, so as a company some manager somewhere figured the easiest solution to that problem was deciding cars with no cables get loaded rather than driven. In a few years time, someone will go on a cost cutting exercise and decide that policy is stupid and expensive and get rid of it. Then another moron collection driver will get stranded and another manager will implement a policy... etc. etc. etc.

 

[jpaul]

hypotheis of regular bev depreciation after first owner - I'm not buying it.
8 year warranty on ev drive-trains&batteries will still be the rubicon on ev ownership , if you are left holding thre baby at that point,
or it is imminent, you just need to have faith that modules don't fail in an environment with limited repair resources,
it's not like an ICE cambelt change where you pay a one off charge - I can mitigate that risk.

fleet companies are now typically extending leases to 4 years, with resulting shortfall of younger cars, and 50% of cars on dealer forecourts older than 5 years.

 

[Diddums]

I'm not buying it.

Yes mate, we know.

 

[m4rmite]

hypotheis of regular bev depreciation after first owner - I'm not buying it.
8 year warranty on ev drive-trains&batteries will still be the rubicon on ev ownership , if you are left holding thre baby at that point,
or it is imminent, you just need to have faith that modules don't fail in an environment with limited repair resources,
it's not like an ICE cambelt change where you pay a one off charge - I can mitigate that risk.

fleet companies are now typically extending leases to 4 years, with resulting shortfall of younger cars, and 50% of cars on dealer forecourts older than 5 years.

Where did you get this data from?

 

[Haggisman]

Only if you take the post out of context. I did say ‘pretty much all’ not all.

Likewise I was responding to the person who is currently leading a brand new car, the chances of them going to a 2k banger are pretty slim.


A £2-3k ICE car is cheap to buy but they are not usually cheap to own.

Even historically cheap ICE cars to run now come with complex more drivetrains with things like wet belts, turbos etc. which come with huge servicing bills when the inevitable belt change becomes due.

The days of a small hatch with a relatively simple 4 pot NA engine are long gone. Cars now entering the cheaper end of the used market are not getting very complicated.



I don’t disagree but the sub £6k market in ICE world doesn’t exactly excite either for the reasons I set out above.

That segment is going to get really fun once the cars with mandated AEB, lane departure systems and other ADAS stuff etc get down to those prices because all those systems will need to work or it’s an MOT fail.

The fancy LED matrix headlights (or just LED headlights generally) will be feeding into this segment after that.

A quick search on autotrader yields plenty of 10-20 year old Focuses(focii?)/fiestas/Astras/corsas, along with quite a few civics, fabias, Octavias etc. within the £2.5-3k price bracket, all of which would be a far better fit for a 1 car family than an EV of the same price.

Yes they are going to need more maintenance and repairs than a newer EV, but consider the demographic who are limited to buying a car for £2-3k are likely also to be living in cheap rented housing so home charging is unlikely unless they're lucky enough to have a suitable property and accomodating landlord, meaning public charging, so running costs are likely to be equal to (if not greater than) a similar ICE. Coupled with (usually) higher insurance and VED, the ability to DIY a lot of repairs - or at least the prevalence of cheap (relatively) independent garages and cheaper components - and the argument tips quite strongly in favour of ICE

If I was in that position I'd certainly take the older ICE over a newer but unsuitable EV any day of the week.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

Brother from another Mother.

 

[tamzzy]

One's named eat-in, and the other is takeaway

 

[Journey]

Interesting changes coming to the R5

Updated Renault 5 gains extra range, red paint and Williams style | Autocar

You can get your inner chav on in over drive mode with that Williams version.

@Diddums not sure if they updated the colour options to allow Yellow on the bigger battery car now.

 

[Diddums]

Interesting changes coming to the R5

Updated Renault 5 gains extra range, red paint and Williams style | Autocar

You can get your inner chav on in over drive mode with that Williams version.

@Diddums not sure if they updated the colour options to allow Yellow on the bigger battery car now.

Thanks. Will have a little nosey next time I'm local.

Seeing some insane deals on used Teslas tho. I really need to pull my finger out and crunch some proper numbers, both in terms of cost and time as I don't have the option for home charging atm.

 

[Rroff]

Seeing a few more Renault 5s on the road lately, used to just see the same bright green one regularly and that was it.

 

[Journey]

Thanks. Will have a little nosey next time I'm local.

Seeing some insane deals on used Teslas tho. I really need to pull my finger out and crunch some proper numbers, both in terms of cost and time as I don't have the option for home charging atm.

I guess one of the benefits if you have no currently available home charger is the cheap(er) rates you'll get at a Supercharger if you have one near by to your commute, work or home. If you can tie in off-peak charging then you are at 23-25p kWh, or about 6p per mile.

Were you looking at a 3 or Y?

 

[Diddums]

I guess one of the benefits if you have no currently available home charger is the cheap(er) rates you'll get at a Supercharger if you have one near by to your commute, work or home. If you can tie in off-peak charging then you are at 23-25p kWh, or about 6p per mile.

Were you looking at a 3 or Y?

Dunno tbh. Apart from the shape I know absolutely nothing.

 

[chanjy]

Dunno tbh. Apart from the shape I know absolutely nothing.

It's a very different size of car to the Renault 5, can tell you that much

 

[jigger]

For me the EV I desire most is the new Renault 5 3E Turbo, my mate has one on order in a custom colour scheme and was shocked that he is expecting final cost to be close to circa 200k.
Still for me as far as EV's go when I see one of these at an event or PR, it turns me into a small child again, the original Renault 5 Turbo's have a similar impact, yet funnily enough as a teenager I was firmly in the Peugeot 205 camp and owned like 4 of them, never owned an R5 Turbo, but feel with age the R5 is now more iconic than 205 GTi.

Does anyone here who is more into their EV's know if the new R5 Turbo is a platform shared with any other EV or have Renault simply gone to town and built their own thing, hence somewhat justification for the 150k ish starting price.

Far rather this over say a Lotus Evija, Denza, BYD U9, Porsche GTS and other EV supercar/hypercar class.

It looks good and £150k probably isn’t ridiculously expensive today, but it’s is still very heavy for a stripped track car. An i3s in full road trim with 43kwh battery is 120kg lighter and that’s a car designed two decades ago costing less than £40k. I think they where close to £30k initially.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

It’s got 70 kWh two motors loads of power and high performance car why are you even comparing an i3

 

[david25]

Interesting changes coming to the R5

Updated Renault 5 gains extra range, red paint and Williams style | Autocar

You can get your inner chav on in over drive mode with that Williams version.

@Diddums not sure if they updated the colour options to allow Yellow on the bigger battery car now.

Just in time to further compete with the Ravel and ID Polo

 

[david25]

Thanks. Will have a little nosey next time I'm local.

Seeing some insane deals on used Teslas tho. I really need to pull my finger out and crunch some proper numbers, both in terms of cost and time as I don't have the option for home charging atm.

Did you see the recent lease deals on the Model 3?

Back in April it was £295 deposit, £295/month

 

[MrRongCar]

Thanks. Will have a little nosey next time I'm local.

Seeing some insane deals on used Teslas tho. I really need to pull my finger out and crunch some proper numbers, both in terms of cost and time as I don't have the option for home charging atm.

May have missed but have you got a budget?

i4s are getting to low 20s and they’re a fantastic car with very usable interior space due to the hatch design.



More than welcome to have a look and drive of mine - can arrange to meet up when I’m in Godalming for work (which is my primary office).