Evolution or God

~>Dg<~ said:
big bang , most theories end up being flawed at some point. einsteins theories have been proved wrong recently too. its just calculated guesses until we can actually understand what is reality. god is the other side of the coin with no real answer too. just hope.

things just evolved. we evolve. path of least resistance. 2 outcomes. its that simple. humans are just here to advance the next gen from before. which is our life goal. you should be better than the person before you in some way to add something to the human race evolving.
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Do you have evidence that Einstein was wrong?
 
NickK said:
A slight side tact - there's a school of thinking of consciousness affects things at a quantum level.

Penrose gave the thought experiment:
* Imagine an earth identical to earth, millions of lightyears away, but had no life. Except all its weather and conditions sat in super position.
* Earth sent a probe with a camera to take a photo and relay to earth
* The probe arrives, takes a photo and send it to earth
* At the precise moment that the human views the image, the weather on the far planet changes to a fixed state instantly.
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yeah i dont buy that - it might be an interesting thought experiment but thats not how quantum mechanics works.
 
Mason- said:
I wouldn’t say it’s an alternative, although sometimes recorded knowledge can be art.

But I would assert that not all art is intended to be a means of communication or to instruct others. Some art, to me, at least is spiritual and divine. Makes me feel good. Other animals don’t need that.

To me the defining thing that makes us human, is our ability to express and consume non-sexual beauty. To me it is the exclusive special thing we have above all other animals, it is completely profound in nature. More so than our intelligence, all life has intelligence we just have a lot of it. Beauty though… all evidence says that it is exclusive to us.
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Sorry I was more referring to cave painting and the like as a form of recorded knowledge. Still, I'm sure even then there was some (maybe most of it?) that was just for fun. Certainly art itself has evolved over time.

I liked your comment though as it offered a different point to most of whats been said in this thread. It reminded me of something I'd seen about generational improvements in 'intelligence' used to be based on what you could show someone plus a little bit extra they might figure out for themselves as they didn't have to do the hard work for the first bit. As we developed language and writing the generational increase took a huge step forward as they could build on more of that past knowledge. I may have a look around if there's a good source that shows what I'm referring to and link it here.

To be honest though art is probably nothing more than a by-product of having the fine motor skills that were beneficial to us for things like holding and carrying things. As someone else said, when less of the time was spent just surviving, that opened up options for other things.
 
Think it's just a pointless question.
With humans 'current' understanding and limitations, evolution is the best choice right now, subject to change and revisions as people learn more about things. Although evolution is pretty much certain at this point. The mechanics are well known, but what STARTED it, is a silly question we don't know and will never know.

Will there be a time humanity will be able to answer the god question? Probably not, but who knows.

Think there will be a time where humans can create life spontaneously if we as a species don't kill ourselves before, but there's no way to know what started it all.
 
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NickK said:
A slight side tact - there's a school of thinking of consciousness affects things at a quantum level.

Penrose gave the thought experiment:
* Imagine an earth identical to earth, millions of lightyears away, but had no life. Except all its weather and conditions sat in super position.
* Earth sent a probe with a camera to take a photo and relay to earth
* The probe arrives, takes a photo and send it to earth
* At the precise moment that the human views the image, the weather on the far planet changes to a fixed state instantly.
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That sounds iffy - do you have a link to what you're referring to there as AFAIK Penrose typically doesn't suggest a conscious observer causes wave function collapse.
 
dowie said:
That sounds iffy - do you have a link to what you're referring to there as AFAIK Penrose typically doesn't suggest a conscious observer causes wave function collapse.
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Precisely. Pentode was calling out the stupidity of the concept, essentially he is highlighting that the universe doesn’t revolve around a person ;)
 
NickK said:
Precisely. Pentode was calling out the stupidity of the concept, essentially he is highlighting that the universe doesn’t revolve around a person ;)
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Ah OK, thanks, that clears things up, I thought you were presenting it as the opposite! :)
 
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