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Exclusive: The AMD Inside Story, Navi GPU Roadmap And The Cost Of Zen To Gamers

4K8KW10 said:
I don't believe that TPU will allow themselves to do clickbait. Even WCFFtech were right about Touring...

Yes, Vega 20 is coming, but Navi is coming, too. And it will be sooner than you expect. :D
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I think this is the original article which TPU based there's on. It's a much better article and you will see how TPU have manipulated what was said and added a Clickbait title.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/6303...avi-gpu-architecture-7nm-portfolio/index.html
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In the article above they say this.

AMD is a little cryptic and throwing some people off by saying that their first 7nm GPU will launch "later this year" with some thinking it'll be Navi, but this will be their Vega 20 GPU.
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So with AMD being a bit cryptic TPU decided to be naughty with there title to get some clicks.
 
4K8KW10 said:
https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/industry/121508-amd-accelerates-7nm-process-adoption/

AMD accelerates 7nm process adoption
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From that article you can see that it's not Navi this year and infact Vega as we have known for a while now.

AMD had originally planned to release the first 7nm Vega GPU in 2019 but, thanks to "immense focus" has been able to move the date forward to later this year. Thus we will see the next-generation Radeon Vega Instinct GPU, demonstrated at Computex with 32GB HBM2, launched before the year is out.
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Thank you @4K8KW10 for that article, I couldn't recall where I'd read Papermaster had discussed moving 7nm forward. But it still doesn't say Navi is coming, in fact, Hexus even clarify the first 7nm GPU is the Instinct-bound Vega 20 we already know about.

So unless you know something we don't...
 
TheRealDeal said:
From that article you can see that it's not Navi this year and infact Vega as we have known for a while now.
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Vega as an architecture has been ready for at least one year and Vega 20, specifically, has been waiting (still) for the new process to become available.

What you don't understand is that Navi, designed for 7nm, will be released alongside or shortly after. If it isn't Q4 2018, it might be very early 2019, Q1 2019.
But never 2020, this is crazy even to think about it as a probability.
 
4K8KW10 said:
Vega as an architecture has been ready for at least one year and Vega 20, specifically, has been waiting (still) for the new process to become available.

What you don't understand is that Navi, designed for 7nm, will be released alongside or shortly after. If it isn't Q4 2018, it might be very early 2019, Q1 2019.
But never 2020, this is crazy even to think about it as a probability.
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I have always believed Navi would be 2019 and not 2020. 2020 makes no sense at all to me and the original road map had it at the end of 2018. These roadmaps usually change a lot though but 2019 is what i always had in mind. I think 2019 is even more likely now that AMD are soley focusing on 7nm products. The first Navi gpu is not meant to be a top end part though and that's another reason i think it will be 2019 as size wise it should not be a big chip which is ideal for early manufacturing on a immature 7nm process.
 
4K8KW10 said:
What you don't understand is that Navi, designed for 7nm, will be released alongside or shortly after
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Cite your source then. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying the articles you've cited simply do not say anything about Navi moving forward.

I've said many times that the Q4 2019 release for Navi on the roadmap leaves a very big hole in AMD's offerings, but with Vega 20 coming forward and 7nm kicking off big-time, I half-expected a 7nm respin of Vega 10 with Hynix HBM2 to fill that gap. Especially as nobody knows what Vega 12 is, which could indicate a refinement of Vega 10 given how AMD's internal numbers work.

And I don't think anybody has ever said 2020 for Navi either...
 
Now that both AMD / Nvidia's CEO's are related through blood, possibly lizard blood.. Roadmaps / pricing and tiers will be much easier to fix.

Nvidia have set the bar so high with 2*** series pricing that only trust fund kids and green team devotee adults will be buying them. AMD can command a decent price too on upcoming 7nm cards, for the people with less disposable income.

It's win win for the evil overlords. Lose lose for us consumer sheeples xD
 
LePhuronn said:
I don't think anybody has ever said 2020 for Navi either...
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Here you go.....

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Navi will be released when there is enough 7nm volume and I suspect Ryzen 3 is going to take priority for non commercial channels. I can see Navi being a 2020 release if Ryzen 3 need more volume.
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Boomstick777 said:
Now that both AMD / Nvidia's CEO's are related through blood, possibly lizard blood..

It's win win for the evil overlords. Lose lose for us consumer sheeples xD
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:rolleyes: The lizard blood you look in others but not AMD.
The lizards wouldn't have given humanity 64-bit computing as early as September 23, 2003 :D
 
LePhuronn said:
No disrespect to @CAT-THE-FIFTH here, but 1 guy on a forum suggesting a possible shift in resources does not count. I'm talking about industry people, roadmap shifts, hell even fud sites like ChipHell and WCCFTech.
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No disrespect taken but I just feel AMD has a real chance with the Intel 10nm issues, and it would be only the second time in their history of being able to get a desktop CPU out on a new node before Intel.
 
LePhuronn said:
No disrespect to @CAT-THE-FIFTH here, but 1 guy on a forum suggesting a possible shift in resources does not count. I'm talking about industry people, roadmap shifts, hell even fud sites like ChipHell and WCCFTech.
Click to expand...

Read post number 1 of this thread.

  • Vega 7nm will not be coming to gamers.
  • Navi 10 will be the first Navi part to arrive and will be landing sometime in 2H 2019 or early 2020, depending on a couple of factors. The performance level of this part will be equivalent to Vega and it will be a small GPU based on 7nm.
  • Navi 14 will follow Navi 10 soon after.
  • Navi 20 is going to be the true high-end GPU built on the 7nm node and as things stand right now, you are tentatively looking at it landing sometime around 2020 – 2021.
  • Navi will also be the first architecture to transition away from GCN (and along with it, the 4096 SP / 64 CU limit that is inherent to the uArch implementation).
  • ‘Next-Gen’ architecture is the uArch formerly codenamed KUMA internally before AMD decided it didn’t like that name too much (oops) and will be based on the same brand new major architecture that AMD rolls out with Navi.
 
4K8KW10 said:
Read post number 1 of this thread.

  • Vega 7nm will not be coming to gamers.
  • Navi 10 will be the first Navi part to arrive and will be landing sometime in 2H 2019 or early 2020, depending on a couple of factors. The performance level of this part will be equivalent to Vega and it will be a small GPU based on 7nm.
  • Navi 14 will follow Navi 10 soon after.
  • Navi 20 is going to be the true high-end GPU built on the 7nm node and as things stand right now, you are tentatively looking at it landing sometime around 2020 – 2021.
  • Navi will also be the first architecture to transition away from GCN (and along with it, the 4096 SP / 64 CU limit that is inherent to the uArch implementation).
  • ‘Next-Gen’ architecture is the uArch formerly codenamed KUMA internally before AMD decided it didn’t like that name too much (oops) and will be based on the same brand new major architecture that AMD rolls out with Navi.
Click to expand...

We know Navi (7nm GPU) is due next year with "next gen vram" so GDDR6 most likely, and in 2020 a GPU the new core architecture at Navi GCN6 is the end of GCN cores.

What we do not know, if AMD decided to put Vega 20 on mainstream market, and what the hell Vega 12 is.
A resping of Vega for higher clocks? A cut down to replace Polaris? a new APU? Nobody knows.
 
Panos said:
We know Navi (7nm GPU) is due next year with "next gen vram" so GDDR6 most likely, and in 2020 a GPU the new core architecture at Navi GCN6 is the end of GCN cores.

What we do not know, if AMD decided to put Vega 20 on mainstream market, and what the hell Vega 12 is.
A resping of Vega for higher clocks? A cut down to replace Polaris? a new APU? Nobody knows.
Click to expand...

And Polaris 30 now :)
 
4K8KW10 said:
Polaris will rock it till sometime in 2019, maybe H2 2019, is this what you are saying?
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lolwhut? Since when did I say anything about Polaris?

I don't know what's coming out between now and Navi. I want to know what Vega 12 is. I want to know if Polaris 30 is happening and what that is. I still can't get the notion of a 7nm respin of Vega 10 out of my head.

But how the conversation ended up talking about Polaris rocking until next year I have no clue.
 
I wonder if they'll rush to market with 7nm GPUs or not since Nvidia isn't really trying to compete on price with them. Their Vega and Polaris die sizes were bigger than competing Nvidia ones so I presume it makes financial sense for them to go for a shrink.
 
LePhuronn said:
Let's clarify all the wording, shall we?



There is a series of products that utilise 7nm process, and their introduction is the next big point in history for AMD.



The "7nm product portfolio" will include actual products using the Zen 2 CPU architecture, and a new GPU architecture called "Navi" designed on the 7nm process. Note it does not say "products with Navi" like it does "products with Zen 2". This could mean actual products using Navi are further away than just introducing the architecture.

So far then, we can conclude that conceptually Zen 2 and Navi are part of the 7nm milestone. There is no talk of timing.



TSMC have started production of AMD products using the 7nm process. Amongst these are a GPU targeted for a Q4 2018 release (because we only have 3 weeks of Q3 left), and a server-class CPU targeted for a 2019 release.

Nowhere does it say that this 7nm GPU is Navi, nor is Navi actually the first 7nm GPU; we know that the first 7nm GPU is the Vega 20 demonstrated at Computex, and we know that Vega 20 is used in Radeon Instinct compute cards.


Conclusion: actual graphics cards using the Navi architecture will not be released in 2018.


So clickbait article title is either clickbait because the press release wording could superficially be interpreted as referring to Navi, or the title is grossly incorrect because the author misinterpreted the press release.

Can we put this one to bed now?
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The wording is vague and has no cut-and-dried meaning.

Let's examine in more detail.

"including the initial products with our second generation “Zen 2” CPU core and our new “Navi” GPU architecture"

This could mean:
a) Our initial products with (both) our Zen 2 CPU core and our new Navi GPU architecture. That would be an APU.
b) Our initial products with our Zen 2 CPU core and (with) our new Navi GPU architecture. Refering to products that use either the new CPU core or the new GPU arch.
c) Our [initial products with our Zen 2 CPU core] and (later) our new Navi GPU architecture.

I'm afraid that the way it is written you could interpret the meaning as almost anything, and no interpretation is obviously correct.
 
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