Explain to me (in simple terms) this hate for diesel?

[darknite]

Ok so this must have been posted before, so firstly I am sorry if I am reopening this. But, I drive a 200hp diesel car, I like the power etc and IF i changed to petrol I would want something equivalent performance wise. So how does this make sense?

2 litre diesel, £110 tax, 129g co2 0 - 60 8.5 seconds and I get about 45mpg from it.

Ok so

2 litre petrol, £195 tax, 197 co2 0 - 60 7.8 seconds which gets a bit over 27mpg

So how can petrol truly work out better for the environment? I know diesels pump out a lot of nitrogen dioxide but per mile surely diesel is still a better option?

I was looking at more sensible 1.5 lite diesel which I know will get more closer to 60mpg for the commute I do. The closest petrol I can find will do about 41mpg.

So in the most simple terms possible can someone tell me why the massive hate for diesel? I am asking for myself and some co-workers.

Honest John data for 2014 onwards Focus
Best petrol MPG 1.0T EcoBoost 125 43.4mpg
Best diesel MPG 1.5 TDCi 105 ECO 60.5mpg

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Because the emissions other than co2 are much worse than petrol.

 

[Molemanmus]

TLDR - Diesels pump out relatively more "bad stuff" that tends to offset MPG savings for the majority of drivers + diesels on the road

 

[darknite]

But i would be using 30%+ fuel per year. How can that still be better?

 

[darknite]

TLDR - Diesels pump out relatively more "bad stuff" that tends to offset MPG savings for the majority of drivers + diesels on the road

So basically some drivers buy a diesel to do a 2 mile school run that will mean a possible diesel super tax for those of us that make good use of a higher mpg diesel?

 

[Molemanmus]

So basically some drivers buy a diesel to do a 2 mile school run that will mean a possible diesel super tax for those of us that make good use of a higher mpg diesel?

Kind of It seems that the public have been brainwashed to think that diesels will always save them money irregardless of their driving habits

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Also, the Government don't want you to buy either. They want you to buy an EV - hence why there are so many tax incentives towards you doing this, investment in infrastructure etc.

Whilst this may be completely unfeasible in your situation, for those doing the school run, or just needed a cheap runabout, it makes complete sense.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Excuse me, as I need to do the school run....

 

[scoobyrichuk]

I don't personally hate diesel cars but most 4 cylinder diesel engines I've experienced have been miserable - loads of torque but a tiny power band and they make a horrible noise. Economy is of course better than an equivalent petrol (although modern turbo petrol engines are perhaps not as far off as the figures you quote above suggest - you get lots of torque like with a diesel engine but a wider power band, also they're generally a lot smoother/refined and quieter). Unless you cover a fairly high mileage then buying a diesel may not save you much money (they often cost more than the equivalent petrol and if not used as intended may cost more to run due to things like a blocked DPF which may need replacing). I have very little experience with 6 cylinder + diesel engines but I understand something like a BMW 3 litre diesel engine is far superior to anything with 4 cylinders and are ideal for covering lots of motorway mileage with decent fuel economy. Also as far as emissions are concerned the c02 levels may be lower for diesels than petrol but the NOx emissions are seemingly higher and this is what affects air quality (especially for people living in big cities).

 

[darknite]

Also, the Government don't want you to buy either. They want you to buy an EV - hence why there are so many tax incentives towards you doing this, investment in infrastructure etc.

Whilst this may be completely unfeasible in your situation, for those doing the school run, or just needed a cheap runabout, it makes complete sense.

I was actually looking at the tesla model 3 when it was announced the US price tag of $35000. If that sold for the conversion rate (at the time it was announced) that would have been £24500 before the UK incentive of £4500. That would have been perfect, focus price range. But reading it looks more like the car will be £32000 ish after UK incentive. Obviously no one knows yet..... but the model 3 with 215 mile + range would do..... If the powers that be removed that import tax then I would jump on it. But tax and weaker pound kills that idea. Its all a bit frustrating.

 

[Dav4]

There's no hate for diesel drivers that actually need them due to doing 12k+ miles per annum. Of course they make sense for such long commutes but what has spoilt it is 99% of people who only go to the shops and back buying them over the last few years because they just look at the unrealistic 60mpg'z the manufacturer claims you get and low tax.
Now major cities are getting polluted at an alarming rait. Diesels are way more harmful to humans also especially people with asthma etc
The people to blame are the idiots who get Dpf's removed and a sick remap from a man with a laptop for mega torqZz bro because they want power and not just mpg'z because they can't afford to run a proper Turbo petrol car.

 

[Orionaut]

Diesels produce slightly higher levels of some pollutants than petrols, Petrols produce slightly higher levels of some other pollutants than diesels.

Neither produce anything like as much as was considered perfectly normal 30 years ago.

Relatively simple, inexpensive and reliable technology has cut harmful pollutants by over 95% over the last 30 years

Trying to hammer down the last 5% is proving stupidly expensive and complicated.

Id just leave things alone if it was me. Diminishing returns and all that.

 

[cuke2u]

Ok so this must have been posted before, so firstly I am sorry if I am reopening this. But, I drive a 200hp diesel car, I like the power etc and IF i changed to petrol I would want something equivalent performance wise. So how does this make sense?

2 litre diesel, £110 tax, 129g co2 0 - 60 8.5 seconds and I get about 45mpg from it.

Ok so

2 litre petrol, £195 tax, 197 co2 0 - 60 7.8 seconds which gets a bit over 27mpg

So how can petrol truly work out better for the environment? I know diesels pump out a lot of nitrogen dioxide but per mile surely diesel is still a better option?

I was looking at more sensible 1.5 lite diesel which I know will get more closer to 60mpg for the commute I do. The closest petrol I can find will do about 41mpg.

So in the most simple terms possible can someone tell me why the massive hate for diesel? I am asking for myself and some co-workers.

Honest John data for 2014 onwards Focus
Best petrol MPG 1.0T EcoBoost 125 43.4mpg
Best diesel MPG 1.5 TDCi 105 ECO 60.5mpg

Petrol 0-60 7.3 secs 55 mpg £30 per year road tax, your petrol comparison needs updating.

 

[stuman]

Diesels produce slightly higher levels of some pollutants than petrols, Petrols produce slightly higher levels of some other pollutants than diesels.

Neither produce anything like as much as was considered perfectly normal 30 years ago.

Relatively simple, inexpensive and reliable technology has cut harmful pollutants by over 95% over the last 30 years

Trying to hammer down the last 5% is proving stupidly expensive and complicated.

Id just leave things alone if it was me. Diminishing returns and all that.

ICE will start to disappear when EV really takes hold. Give it 10 years and we will see tipping point. I'd take 2:1 for it to happen in 5

 

[Nasher]

Don't diesels pump out something which is a carcinogenic? (really bad for human health). Where as petrol is mostly carbon.

Modern petrol engines are very clean compared to those even just a few years ago though. Look at some of the current hot hatches for example, some will top 50mpg on a cruise.

 

[adolf hamster]

diesels became popular when the mainstream manufacturers started turbo'ing them and they became much better to drive, combine this with the high mpg figures by comparison to petrol and the logic of everyone was simple, diesel be cheaper to run.

fast forward to today, and the government has realised the real issues relating to diesels, and now everyone's boarding the hype train of "dirty diesel scum killing the baby seals"

the short of the matter is, whilst we may all mumble agreement with the business that the emissions are important, for the vast vast majority who aren't buying brand new cars, their keywords for buying a car start with "is it reliable" and "is the fuel economy good" not "are the emissions low?"

electric cars are all well and good, but with the couple of notable exceptions (eg vauxhall ampera) the idea that you won't be able to do more than a couple of hundred miles to a tank just doesnt fly. hell my car isn't exactly an mpg monster but you can hop in it and do a 400 mile round trip without any fuel issues (and have done)

 

[darknite]

Petrol 0-60 7.3 secs 55 mpg £30 per year road tax, your petrol comparison needs updating.

Which petrol car does that?

 

[Rilot]

Although with Euro 6 compliant diesels the difference is marginal at best. E6 massively cut down on the NOx and particulates.

 

[VincentHanna]

Basically if it's Euro VI compliant then a diesel engine isn't too bad.

Anything older and they pump out lots of nitrous oxide which is bad for people's health

Petrol cars emit more cO2 which is worse for the environment.

 

[Nasher]

Although with Euro 6 compliant diesels the difference is marginal at best. E6 massively cut down on the NOx and particulates.

Are you looking at VW figures?

Petrol cars emit more cO2 which is worse for the environment.

Actually nitrous oxide is waaaay worse for the environment, as well as your health (Co2 isn't actually harmful, the amount of it we're making is the issue). If they factored in nox for tax brackets, diesels would be screwed.