External DAC to improve Android Phone with Tidal usage?

[Nobski]

cu3ed posted a thread in movies section - a video on tidal mqa expose, short sighted I thought, it disregards psychoacoustics.

I think mqa 96/24 sounds good, but if volumio is only offering 44.1/24 that's only (according to tidal) flac CD quality,so would be a significant limitation for me.

Via Tidal for me it offers 44.1/24 , for own files it can do 192kHz / 24bit which is the highest my High res rips go to and I think the limit of my equipment, via other equipment such as Allo usbridge signature it is higher for own playback of files. So if you have mqa equipment and use volumio you will get bigger numbers showing I assume.

Psychoacoustics, is that not subjective (genuine question) ?

 

[XeNoNF50]

Get a blue sound node 2i streamer. You can use tidal connect from your phone to control tidal and the streamer has an internal MQA DAC so you get full unfold. You just need to use the 2 RCA cables to your amp.

I have the streamer, I use it with digital coax out to my Focal Arche amp so I do not get the full unfold (but I use Qobuz not Tidal so balanced DAC in Arche beats internal DAC in streamer). It is a brilliant Roon ready device.

 

[jpaul]

Psychoacoustics, is that not subjective (genuine question) ?

yes- but represents the basis for Aptx/aac/mp3 ... plus some of netflix bandwidth enancements.

but, nonetheless, based on large audiences feedback, statistics ... it's like the vaccine effectiveness ?
(edit: vaccines well in so much of extrapolation to a larger population, but disease presence measured objectively, side-effects a bit more subjective)

(BBC programme, last month, on neural marketting, which , more objectively, looks at people brain activity to assess response to products -
they found pepsi does taste better, but the coke advertising legacy/brain-washing power is so great that it over-rules in a non blind testing.)

---

Raspberry Pi with the Allo Digione Sig Hat

I don't see why tidal don't offer a linux install of their software to allow Pi to do software unfolding and deliver 96/24,
whether Qobuz is more versatile ?

 

[jpaul]

Noticed that tidal have a new 'connect' app which should give regular tidal interface on android phone to wirelessly control a (hopefully windows?) streamer.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tidal-announces-tidal-connect.16909/
https://www.whathifi.com/news/tidal-connect-comes-to-cambridge-audios-music-streamers (tabloid)

although as someone says

I'm lazier , I simply use Splashtop (a generic pc mirroring to mobile device) to control desktop Tidal with my Ipad. IMO the "connect" function is one of the most awaited feat. (and one Spotify selling point over Tidal)

 

[Nobski]

yes- but represents the basis for Aptx/aac/mp3 ... plus some of netflix bandwidth enancements.

but, nonetheless, based on large audiences feedback, statistics ... it's like the vaccine effectiveness ?
(edit: vaccines well in so much of extrapolation to a larger population, but disease presence measured objectively, side-effects a bit more subjective)

(BBC programme, last month, on neural marketting, which , more objectively, looks at people brain activity to assess response to products -
they found pepsi does taste better, but the coke advertising legacy/brain-washing power is so great that it over-rules in a non blind testing.)

Oh yes, we are far more susceptible to marketing than we would like to think, audio gear can be good for that. I think for us gentlemen if they put numbers against something to compare we always want the `better`number, lol regardless of what the product is.

I don't see why tidal don't offer a linux install of their software to allow Pi to do software unfolding and deliver 96/24,
whether Qobuz is more versatile ?

I suspect because mqa want revenue from every step of the process and this would not fit their business model. Jim Collinson from Linn in 2017 outlined the mqa model well, interesting read regardless of if you like mqa or not, see link below.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201111211105/https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music

I have tried Qobuz a while ago and did not get on with their software, might be better now (you would hope) as well as weird playlists and at the time a limited catalogue. However it now has Volumio integration and other hardware streamer integration now so might make for a better experience.
They also ripped me off when I canceled my subscription paid via paypal, got the cancellation email from them and they kept taking payment for another 3 months before I noticed, unfortunately paypal sided with them despite all the evidence, grrr, so won`t ever be using them again. Lesson learnt, cancel at the paypal end as well as the other.

 

[XeNoNF50]

Oh yes, we are far more susceptible to marketing than we would like to think, audio gear can be good for that. I think for us gentlemen if they put numbers against something to compare we always want the `better`number, lol regardless of what the product is.


I suspect because mqa want revenue from every step of the process and this would not fit their business model. Jim Collinson from Linn in 2017 outlined the mqa model well, interesting read regardless of if you like mqa or not, see link below.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201111211105/https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music

I have tried Qobuz a while ago and did not get on with their software, might be better now (you would hope) as well as weird playlists and at the time a limited catalogue. However it now has Volumio integration and other hardware streamer integration now so might make for a better experience.
They also ripped me off when I canceled my subscription paid via paypal, got the cancellation email from them and they kept taking payment for another 3 months before I noticed, unfortunately paypal sided with them despite all the evidence, grrr, so won`t ever be using them again. Lesson learnt, cancel at the paypal end as well as the other.

Qobuz's app is trash honestly. If it wasn't for Roon which elevates it from the worst app to the best UI I don't think I could use it. It is hands down the best quality streaming service though.

 

[Nobski]

Qobuz's app is trash honestly. If it wasn't for Roon which elevates it from the worst app to the best UI I don't think I could use it. It is hands down the best quality streaming service though.

Yes, good to know there is a way to make it work, shocking they haven't improved it.
I probably would have gone back to them at some point if not for my negative experience.
I felt spotify is the best overall experience, especially their curated playlists, look forward to their HD service this year.

 

[jpaul]

Spotify - yes I had read they were about to start lossless cd 44.1/16 ->
(https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/22/22295273/spotify-hifi-announced-lossless-streaming-hd-quality)
for any new hardware I get, I would like to ensure it can run their app, and those of qobuz, or amazon ?(the only other contender) and, give the bitstream to the dac.

I've not purchased any high res 96/24 tracks either, but, on the grounds that cd's & the cuts broadcast on radio, maybe compressed to 16bits,
that is appealing, the seller needs to be honest/open about the provenance though.

 

[tom_nieto]

I use an Apple TV 2 to Beresford DAC to my Cyrus 8 amp. Sounds good, but it’s convoluted and only works because I’ve got an apple ecosystem.

The Amazon echo link looks interesting but it’s £180!

 

[Jaap74]

Hdmi is generally awful for pcm

Can you please explain why?

Thanks

 

[Freakbro]

Have been doing a lot of reading up on all this, so thanks again for the pointers.

I've been leaning towards the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or the Chord Qutest. Though with the Schiit being out of stock and no indication of when they will be back in, that sort of scuppers that one! Plus the new HiFi dealer I've been using near me is just negotiating with the Chord rep he knows and hopefuly I'll be able to demo the Qutest in the not too distant future.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Have been doing a lot of reading up on all this, so thanks again for the pointers.

I've been leaning towards the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or the Chord Qutest. Though with the Schiit being out of stock and no indication of when they will be back in, that sort of scuppers that one! Plus the new HiFi dealer I've been using near me is just negotiating with the Chord rep he knows and hopefuly I'll be able to demo the Qutest in the not too distant future.

Sounds like you’ve been influenced by the “latest and greatest” hype.
There’s lots of talk of massive improvements in DAC technologies, and I did try a number a few years ago. Personally, I not convinced. An old but well implemented dac can still happily hold its own. For example the best digital system that I heard at the last Scalford show was front by an old Wadia transport and dac. So don’t rule out the option of an older s/h piece of kit

 

[turbot1984]

Spotify - yes I had read they were about to start lossless cd 44.1/16 ->
(https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/22/22295273/spotify-hifi-announced-lossless-streaming-hd-quality)
for any new hardware I get, I would like to ensure it can run their app, and those of qobuz, or amazon ?(the only other contender) and, give the bitstream to the dac.

I've not purchased any high res 96/24 tracks either, but, on the grounds that cd's & the cuts broadcast on radio, maybe compressed to 16bits,
that is appealing, the seller needs to be honest/open about the provenance though.

I will likely update to new Spotify hifi ... not 100% sure my streamer will be up to this quality though as over 5 years old (Naim Unitiqute2)... anyone know?

 

[Freakbro]

Sounds like you’ve been influenced by the “latest and greatest” hype.
There’s lots of talk of massive improvements in DAC technologies, and I did try a number a few years ago. Personally, I not convinced. An old but well implemented dac can still happily hold its own. For example the best digital system that I heard at the last Scalford show was front by an old Wadia transport and dac. So don’t rule out the option of an older s/h piece of kit

I don't know about 'latest and greatest', just the best I can currently get that's in my budget. I'm fairly new to this level of tinkering, so my knowledge of what previous makes/models of equipment are good is rather limited and tbh, my audiophile friend is always on at me to start on ebay etc to find stuff, but not being funny, I'm enjoying buying shiny and new, I have the money for it and am not that interested in s/h at the moment. I'm like Nobski mentioned earlier in the thread, I'll buy this tranch of gear and then I'm done for a long time. I'm only just replacing my gear now that's over 20 years old!

But I'm definitely not just buying into more money = better, I am doing as much research I can (about a subjective subject), narrow down the options and then demoing what's available and seeing what I like.

It's like cables, I appreciate that cables can and do have an effect on the sound, for instance I can hear the difference between the Van Damme and QED silver I have (The difference between copper and silver), but have always been sceptical about the differences between copper cables once they are at a certain point. So I've been demoing various cables for fun to see what differences I can make out. First up was a £30 / m Chord Shawline, and yes, immediately the mids and high were so much smoother, Dylans voice all of a sudden now sounded grainy on my Van Dammes to smooth and clear and on the Chord - but, a lot of the bass disappeared, so for me overall, I didn't like it as much. But I've just tried some Chord Epic XL at £200 / m (lol) and the difference was absolutely amazing, all the mids and highs being so smooth and now more bass than I've ever heard. In fact on trying 2049 by Hans Zimmer one speaker spat the bung out of the rear port!

 

[Nobski]

Have been doing a lot of reading up on all this, so thanks again for the pointers.

I've been leaning towards the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or the Chord Qutest. Though with the Schiit being out of stock and no indication of when they will be back in, that sort of scuppers that one! Plus the new HiFi dealer I've been using near me is just negotiating with the Chord rep he knows and hopefuly I'll be able to demo the Qutest in the not too distant future.

Yes unfortunately the stock at Schiit has been poor for a while now in the UK, I think some of the wildfires in California affected their suppliers plus the usual other reasons possibly ?

The Chord Qutest looks a good DAC to audition and gets good reviews. It will be interesting to know what you think but what will you use to play through it as ultimately that will influence the output ?

I don't know about 'latest and greatest', just the best I can currently get that's in my budget. I'm fairly new to this level of tinkering, so my knowledge of what previous makes/models of equipment are good is rather limited and tbh, my audiophile friend is always on at me to start on ebay etc to find stuff, but not being funny, I'm enjoying buying shiny and new, I have the money for it and am not that interested in s/h at the moment. I'm like Nobski mentioned earlier in the thread, I'll buy this tranch of gear and then I'm done for a long time. I'm only just replacing my gear now that's over 20 years old!

But I'm definitely not just buying into more money = better, I am doing as much research I can (about a subjective subject), narrow down the options and then demoing what's available and seeing what I like.

It's like cables, I appreciate that cables can and do have an effect on the sound, for instance I can hear the difference between the Van Damme and QED silver I have (The difference between copper and silver), but have always been sceptical about the differences between copper cables once they are at a certain point. So I've been demoing various cables for fun to see what differences I can make out. First up was a £30 / m Chord Shawline, and yes, immediately the mids and high were so much smoother, Dylans voice all of a sudden now sounded grainy on my Van Dammes to smooth and clear and on the Chord - but, a lot of the bass disappeared, so for me overall, I didn't like it as much. But I've just tried some Chord Epic XL at £200 / m (lol) and the difference was absolutely amazing, all the mids and highs being so smooth and now more bass than I've ever heard. In fact on trying 2049 by Hans Zimmer one speaker spat the bung out of the rear port!

Oh gawd, don't get me looking at better cables @Freakbro lol !

Funny enough I have a Chord C-line analogue RCA between DAC and amp and a Van Damme BNC between transport and DAC and have some Chord speaker plugs that I need to get around to putting on.

Wow, that must have been some serious bass / volume to spit the bung out

 

[Freakbro]

Yes unfortunately the stock at Schiit has been poor for a while now in the UK, I think some of the wildfires in California affected their suppliers plus the usual other reasons possibly ?

The Chord Qutest looks a good DAC to audition and gets good reviews. It will be interesting to know what you think but what will you use to play through it as ultimately that will influence the output ?

For the meantime it'll probably be just the phone via USB while I figure out what the permenant solution will be. Your RPi Allo suggestion seems the most likely approach, but it's from the USA again, so issues with stock and delivery means I might look closer to home for a solution.

Oh gawd, don't get me looking at better cables @Freakbro lol !

Haha, yea that's an expensive rabbit hole to go down! I certainly won't be buying the Chord Epic XL, no matter how good it looked or sounded

 

[Nobski]

For the meantime it'll probably be just the phone via USB while I figure out what the permanent solution will be. Your RPi Allo suggestion seems the most likely approach, but it's from the USA again, so issues with stock and delivery means I might look closer to home for a solution.

Haha, yea that's an expensive rabbit hole to go down! I certainly won't be buying the Chord Epic XL, no matter how good it looked or sounded

It`s tempting though

Allo have world wide distributors, info on their web site, including from the UK (I will message you the details as technically might be seen as a competitor to OC as they also sell Raspberry Pi`s) who have the Allo DigiOne Signature but don`t appear to have the Usbridge Signature or the case, so depending if you have a preference you could get that otherwise there is a French audio distributor who seems to have the full range and other interesting stuff, not sure on import issues so could be worth contacting them first

 

[Nobski]

Noticed that tidal have a new 'connect' app which should give regular tidal interface on android phone to wirelessly control a (hopefully windows?) streamer.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tidal-announces-tidal-connect.16909/
https://www.whathifi.com/news/tidal-connect-comes-to-cambridge-audios-music-streamers (tabloid)

although as someone says

Hi, yes they have now integrated it in the paid for Volumio software, works well, also think they have multi room sync streaming in Volumio now which I will have a play with when I get my Allo Boss back from being lent out.

Volumio also has had a free Spotify connect for a while that works last time I used it.

 

[Freakbro]

It`s tempting though

Hah, yea....never say never eh?

Allo have world wide distributors, info on their web site, including from the UK (I will message you the details as technically might be seen as a competitor to OC as they also sell Raspberry Pi`s) who have the Allo DigiOne Signature but don`t appear to have the Usbridge Signature or the case, so depending if you have a preference you could get that otherwise there is a French audio distributor who seems to have the full range and other interesting stuff, not sure on import issues so could be worth contacting them first

Thanks for the info!

I'm going to borrow a Saturn-R CD player at the weekend from my local Hifi shop, mainly as it's a DAC in it's own right too and I can get an initial sense of what the DAC brings to the table and I can compare to the Chord when that turns up.