Thats what I took it to mean yes, they basically have 8 engines, that must remain sealed so no rebuilds, but how they use those engines is completely free. It's a good change imo, one of the few that makes sense both in cost cutting terms and without ruining the sport by giving someone a 10 place grid penalty.
F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread
- Thread starter Duke
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Thats what I took it to mean yes, they basically have 8 engines, that must remain sealed so no rebuilds, but how they use those engines is completely free. It's a good change imo, one of the few that makes sense both in cost cutting terms and without ruining the sport by giving someone a 10 place grid penalty.
The only issue with the new engine rule is what the panalty means. Will you be penalised at the GP where you use the 9th or more engine? or will you be penalised at tevery race you use the 9th or more engine?
BAsically, if you had 8 engines blow in 8 weekends, does that means if you used a 9th engine for rounds 9, 10, and 11, then a 10th engine for round 12, 13 and 14, and then an 11th engine for rounds 15, 16, 17 and 18 would you get penalised at rounds 9, 12 and 15, or at all rounds from 9 to the end of the season? If the latter, then it screws teams up should they loose 2 or 3 engines early on in the year, ad it will mean they will be likely to start every race towards the end of the year from no higher than 11th.
Imagin somone having engines blow in the first 3 rounds, then winning everything up untill round 14, but then for the final 4 rounds cos they have run out of engines they start at 11th or worse... would be rubbish, and would mean the end of the season would be full of teams to scared to go for it incase they loose another engine!
The penalties for this rule ahvent been defined by the FIA yet.
BAsically, if you had 8 engines blow in 8 weekends, does that means if you used a 9th engine for rounds 9, 10, and 11, then a 10th engine for round 12, 13 and 14, and then an 11th engine for rounds 15, 16, 17 and 18 would you get penalised at rounds 9, 12 and 15, or at all rounds from 9 to the end of the season? If the latter, then it screws teams up should they loose 2 or 3 engines early on in the year, ad it will mean they will be likely to start every race towards the end of the year from no higher than 11th.
Imagin somone having engines blow in the first 3 rounds, then winning everything up untill round 14, but then for the final 4 rounds cos they have run out of engines they start at 11th or worse... would be rubbish, and would mean the end of the season would be full of teams to scared to go for it incase they loose another engine!
The penalties for this rule ahvent been defined by the FIA yet.
Maybe the teams need to factor this into the running of the engines, so as to ensure they can reliably run only 8 for the whole season! That the challenge. This is motorsport, there is risk!
I would imagine they would be punished every race where they are using more than the 8th engine. Otherwise there would be no point in the rule at all!
The last 2 or 3 races would be crap if say 4 or 5 drivers were getting 10 place penalties each time. Especially if they were midfield runners, who probubly wouldnt even bother to go out for qualifying as thye would be last regardless.
The fact is, the teams havent been told the penalties, so cant plan around it. Just with the FIA would define it. They didnt even announce the change, they just changed the detail in the Technical Regulations and then put them on their website... it took the teams to turn around to the FIA and go "uh... what is this??"
The fact is, the teams havent been told the penalties, so cant plan around it. Just with the FIA would define it. They didnt even announce the change, they just changed the detail in the Technical Regulations and then put them on their website... it took the teams to turn around to the FIA and go "uh... what is this??"
Well, then they need to make sure they cover their backs. The same rules will apply to each team so the point is moot. The whole point is to reduce the cost by reducing the number of engines used by a team in a year. If they get penalised at one race for changing an engine, and as a result can use it at two other races un-challenged then they will be gaining an unfair advantage.
But surely if a team goes through 8 engines in 8 weekends, with the engine freeze they'd either continue going through 1 engine per weekend, or they'd be able to fix the obviously faulty part before the 8th race.
I still think it's a fairer system than last years, although the best option of course would be if it only punishes you on the first race with the 9th engine, and ditto for 10th/11th/etc.
I still think it's a fairer system than last years, although the best option of course would be if it only punishes you on the first race with the 9th engine, and ditto for 10th/11th/etc.
Then they should have designed the engine properly!! IIRC all the teams have had the opportunity to submit requests to change parts of the engines to bring them up to spec. If they had highlighted a major reliability problem before the season starts, i am sure the FIA would accept a request to alter the engine provided no performance enhancment was gained.
Any race started with an engine that was not in the starting 8 should be subject to a penalty! Otherwise the 8 engine rule is just pointless. One of the reasons for this engine freeze is to reduce the in-season testing and engine revisions that cost engineering time and money mid-season. Do your pre-season testing correctly, and develop a finished reliable engine package before the start of the first race.
Soldato
How many engines were they using during the last few seasons? Championship wise, it can't have been that much more than 8. IF they don't have the in-season testing then the other engines would be redundant anyway.
Man of Honour
From what I can see Hamilton used the expected 9, Massa took his Joker after Oz and hence used 10.
Remember these engines only did Saturday and Sunday running last year. This year Friday running has to be done on the race engine and gearbox too so not only is mid season testing banned but Friday running may be curtailed too. I'd need to check the parc ferme rules again but I can see teams having a stock of "used" engines which will be used on Fridays as the season progresses.
Remember these engines only did Saturday and Sunday running last year. This year Friday running has to be done on the race engine and gearbox too so not only is mid season testing banned but Friday running may be curtailed too. I'd need to check the parc ferme rules again but I can see teams having a stock of "used" engines which will be used on Fridays as the season progresses.
Ferrari have had to change their exhaust - http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2009/0/618.html
Soldato
Well **** me sideways.....imagine that. Ferrari having to change their car due to a ruling by the FIA. I imagine sunama has something pithy to say right now about how this doesn't change anything regarding the FIA being irrevocably biased towards Ferrari....
Question - why are exhaust pipes considered part of the bodywork? Surely they're part of, you know, the exhaust system?
Ah well. Nice to know that the rules are still being made up this close to the start of the season. Especially since in-season testing is banned. I presume they'd rethink that one if a major rule change had to occur mid-season (like the banning of high wings in mid '69, or the airbox design change in '76 after the first 'flyaway' races, or the addition of the wooden plank post Imola '94....).
***edit***
And we certainly can't have teams coming up with something that has aerodynamic benefits in motor racing can we? I mean, where does it end? One team might even - gasp! - come up with something that none of the others came up with! And that just wouldn't be fair!
*sigh*
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Associate
Seems to be a lot of teams complaining about this and that.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73038
Have to say Red Bulls may well be better. If they have a few sneaky parts and release the car late they may get away with them.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73038
Have to say Red Bulls may well be better. If they have a few sneaky parts and release the car late they may get away with them.
Interesting: http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2009/0/615.html
Does this mean they may introduce this and it's not just for housing test sensors as someone else said on here? Sounds very novel - so expect to see it on every car by melbourne if allowed.
Does this mean they may introduce this and it's not just for housing test sensors as someone else said on here? Sounds very novel - so expect to see it on every car by melbourne if allowed.
It's been on the cards, even one of the Toyota members of staff said they would have to when they saw the Ferrari in testing.
So, Honda announcement today? Perhaps?
Cant see anything on news sites yet.......... ooooh, the tenson!
Cant see anything on news sites yet.......... ooooh, the tenson!
Soldato
Well they have till tomorrow to find a buyer, or its no "Honda" F1 team and 700 F1 jobs down
The field will look bare with another team out the picture.
Well they have till tomorrow to find a buyer, or its no "Honda" F1 team and 700 F1 jobs down
The field will look bare with another team out the picture.
I think Bernie's been quoted as saying that if Honda don't make it then teams can run 3rd cars...
Well they have till tomorrow to find a buyer, or its no "Honda" F1 team and 700 F1 jobs down
The field will look bare with another team out the picture.
I am hoping that Amiga-fan's rumour turns out to be true!!