F1 2012 - This whole 'stepped-nose' thing

Mr Men said:
the stepped nose is in effect a high nose, giving them most air under the car? McLaren and RB had the best EBD. Others were not so reliant on it giving them downforce, did Lewis not say at launch they have not yet recovered the lost downforce from the EBD ban?
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The stepped nose is just a result of having both the tub and the nose at the highest permittable level.

McLaren could have had an equally high nose as everyone else and still not needed a big step due to the current height of their tub.

If the high nose is such an important requirement for them, do you not think they'd have just done it, seeing as they could have done so easily?
 
Mr Men said:
Still not sure how it's relevant to the nose?
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I was outlining why McLaren have been using a lower tub and nose for the last few years. It's part of their design ethos of having a low CoG and a stiffly sprung car.

The high stepped nose doesn't really fit in with that concept, it's not an oversight, it will have been considered and dropped. Just because it's the direction most of the field have gone in doesn't mean it is right for them.

Having a high nose isn't a bolt on go faster part like for example the F-duct was.
 
Mr Men said:
You said it would mean a redesign of the whole car, how is that easy?
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For other teams to have made it smooth it would have done. Go back and read what I said again, you've obviously misinterpreted.

Every other team (so far) had a tub at or near the max height allowed. They also had very high noses. The max permissible height of the nose dropped, but the tub didn't, hence the steps. If they wanted to have a smooth transition they needed to drop their tub height which would have been a huge redesign task.

McLaren had a nose and tub way below the maximum levels anyway. All McLaren would have needed to do was have a straight nose instead of one that dipped but chose not to.

This image shows why:

mp427-noses.jpg


So given how easy it would have been for McLaren to have a near maximum height nose, why do you think they decided not to?
 
Kenai said:
So given how easy it would have been for McLaren to have a near maximum height nose, why do you think they decided not to?
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Because their designers were not open minded and stuck in their design philosophy, it does happen (see Ferrari recently) and it's likely they have gone in the wrong direction, much more likely McLaren have went wrong than all the rest IMO. Gary Anderson went over the nose on the BBC site, and said McLaren have limited their development with their nose, but what does he know :)
 
Well it was working just fine for them last year, so why will it be such a massive disaster for them this year?

What do you know that McLaren don't?

They certainly won't be moving to a 'stepped' nose anyway, as you originally commented, they've simply no need to, even if they did decide to switch to a higher nose.
 
Kenai said:
Well it was working just fine for them last year, so why will it be such a massive disaster for them this year?

What do you know that McLaren don't?

They certainly won't be moving to a 'stepped' nose anyway, as you originally commented, they've simply no need to, even if they did decide to switch to a higher nose.
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As I already said, last year they had great downforce from the EBD, they have lost that and I am 99% sure Lewis said they have not recovered the lost downforce yet.

What do all the other teams know that McLaren don't? I bet they will be mocking up stepped nose already, might even run one in Jerez.
 
Mr Men said:
As I already said, last year they had great downforce from the EBD, they have lost that and I am 99% sure Lewis said they have not recovered the lost downforce yet.

What do all the other teams know that McLaren don't?
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Its more simple than that. Mclaren have had a similar design for some time, so when looking at the options they could either follow the max dimensions to the letter, or keep to what they know and what has worked well before. Thats my thoughts anyway.
 
Duke said:
Its more simple than that. Mclaren have had a similar design for some time, so when looking at the options they could either follow the max dimensions to the letter, or keep to what they know and what has worked well before. Thats my thoughts anyway.
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Yeah but does not make it the right thing to do tho, which is basically my point, it might well hamper them that they were stuck in their ways, as we have seen with Ferrari recently?
 
Mr Men said:
As I already said, last year they had great downforce from the EBD, they have lost that and I am 99% sure Lewis said they have not recovered the lost downforce yet.

What do all the other teams know that McLaren don't? I bet they will be mocking up stepped nose already, might even run one in Jerez.
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I've not watched the interviews, so i've no idea what Lewis has said but even so, I wouldn't take it as gospel truth anyway.

What all the other teams know is that they had to have a step or redesign their tub to be able to continue with the high nose philosophy they have been pursuing and stay within the new regulations. McLaren didn't because their design already fitted into the new regulations.

Even if they move to a higher nose like everyone else - THEY WILL NOT NEED A STEP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE - you seem to be missing this point repeatedly.

McLaren have spent the winter refining an existing design - everyone else has spent it trying to work out how to make the step impact them in the least negative way.
 
Mr Men said:
Erm yes they will if they make the tub follow the others
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You're mental if you think McLaren would deliberately redesign their tub to make it so high they needed a step.

The only reason the step is even in the regulations is because all the teams kicked up such a fuss about having to redesign the tub to meet the proposed new tub height that the tub height regulation change was scrapped.

McLaren can have a nose just as high as everyone else without needing to redesign their tub or have a step. This is a simple fact.
 
Thomas. PLease. said:
Mclaren have also employed the use of the so called snowplow splitter under the nose, which it appears no other team has. In my opinion it looks like a much more considered approach than the stepped noses all the other teams have adopted, but what do I know. We will however soon find out!
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The redbull splitter looks like a snow plough to me, as does most other car's splitter
 
I really want to post a "Rate the fuglies" thread, but I'm forcing myself to hold off until all* the 2012 models have been shown off. Just in case Mercedes come steaming in late with a real beauty.

*HRT discounted, in case we end up waiting forever.
 
Kenai said:
You're mental if you think McLaren would deliberately redesign their tub to make it so high they needed a step.

The only reason the step is even in the regulations is because all the teams kicked up such a fuss about having to redesign the tub to meet the proposed new tub height that the tub height regulation change was scrapped.

McLaren can have a nose just as high as everyone else without needing to redesign their tub or have a step. This is a simple fact.
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And you're mental if you think others would not lower the tub if the step was stupid and not the right way to go, really. We shall see in testing won't we :)
 
Mr Men said:
And you're mental if you think others would not lower the tub if the step was stupid and not the right way to go, really. We shall see in testing won't we :)
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They've not lowered the tubs because to do so is hugely hugely costly and requires a massive redesign of the car. It's easier and cheaper to work around a step on the nose than it is to redesign one of the core elements of the cars chassis. They've done nothing more than pursued the best of a bad choice.

If the other teams already had a lower tub that allowed a maximum height nose they would not have deliberately gone and made a higher tub.

McLaren will not be redesigning their tub and running a stepped nose this year. It will not happen. If they were going to do it, they'd have done it last year when they'd have actually been able to run a really high nose as a result.
 
Kenai said:
McLaren will not be redesigning their tub and running a stepped nose this year. It will not happen. If they were going to do it, they'd have done it last year when they'd have actually been able to run a really high nose as a result.
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We shall see :)
 
Kenai said:
They've not lowered the tubs because to do so is hugely hugely costly and requires a massive redesign of the car. It's easier and cheaper to work around a step on the nose than it is to redesign one of the core elements of the cars chassis.
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exactly, the mclaren was the faster car at the end of 2011 so low nose vs High nose is clearly not a problem
 
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