You don't risk cooking your tyres presumably and seeing as even without having an exhaust aimed near them last season they struggled with them wearing to fast
F1 2013 Testing: Week 2 Barcelona
- Thread starter Duke
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You don't risk cooking your tyres presumably and seeing as even without having an exhaust aimed near them last season they struggled with them wearing to fast
Ted's notebook for today is up - http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/28461/8512888
Soldato
Is Hamilton suffering from early hair loss or is this just chronic helmet hair?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21525082
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21525082
Associate
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Yes, it sounds like it could be completely OTT and actually begin to ruin the spectacle.
Still, it's early days, still testing and Bernie sleeps in a cryogenic freezer
Edit:
So I cannot find the lap delta between the mediums and hards. I know in Jerez, the hard was oddly faster than the medium, but there is no mention of that occuring here. I can only assume that the medium is faster as expected though...
Was is interesting is that Hamilton's time on the hards was only marginally slower than Nico's fastest time on mediums the day before. Now the track has bedded in a little more, it will be interesting to see how the Nico compares today.
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Soldato
Soldato
If the teams don't sort out the tire problems they will be having 6+ pit stops at the first race.
In away I hope these new tires fail so pirelli have to bring out longer lasting tires with a big heat window.
In away I hope these new tires fail so pirelli have to bring out longer lasting tires with a big heat window.
Caporegime
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Tyres react differently on different tracks anyway, different weather and the cars themselves can have been set up quite a bit differently for the different tracks.
Thing is when it comes to Q3 you can compare because by and large you can tell when people have gone full out to go the fastest and everyone will be on 2-3 lap fastest possible times. Race wise, you won't necessarily have everyone on the same settings at any given time, fuel saving stints, engines turned up or down but ultimately they need to do X amount of laps as fast as possible.
There isn't that comparison in testing because the teams are setting goals for themselves. Two teams do a 15 lap run on the same tyres, one is 2seconds a lap slower, are they slower, or is one team testing a saving fuel engines turned down, last 15 laps of the race stint, and the other team is testing a last 15 lap, engine turned up, burning fuel stint.
Every decision later in the year about how much fuel they can use and when, if its best to sit back from that car and cruise and go faster later, or if its desparate to go maxed out and get past that guy infront or your race is over, in large part comes from these tests and seeing how the car reacts in various situations, so the more variation on stints the better as its more data. Knowing the car sucks under heavy fuel if you are trying to go fast or slow, if tyre deg is the same going maxed out or slow, then whats the point of going slow. Burning through fuel with higher engine settings might make more difference to lap time under a heavy fuel load than a low one, they'll only know that through testing all these situations out though.
Ultimately the mediums were slower than hards stuff, was without knowing what teams were doing on their runs so its all guesswork. The longer the run the better info you can guess because at least you know whatever they were doing had loads of fuel on board.
You could say Perez's time is rubbish because Hamilton was on a 10 lap run on harder tyres and not much slower, Perez could have had 20 laps of fuel on board, but only went out for 3 though
Ultimately Hamilton's time was good because it was a hard tyre and a 10 lap run, so we know for certain it wasn't the fastest tyre or the lowest fuel load... Perez's time, looks half decent, if he had loads of fuel on board, its a great time, almost no fuel, it actually seems a little slow vs the Hamilton time.
Its all about the goals, without knowing what the teams are trying to learn, the times mean very little.
Thing is when it comes to Q3 you can compare because by and large you can tell when people have gone full out to go the fastest and everyone will be on 2-3 lap fastest possible times. Race wise, you won't necessarily have everyone on the same settings at any given time, fuel saving stints, engines turned up or down but ultimately they need to do X amount of laps as fast as possible.
There isn't that comparison in testing because the teams are setting goals for themselves. Two teams do a 15 lap run on the same tyres, one is 2seconds a lap slower, are they slower, or is one team testing a saving fuel engines turned down, last 15 laps of the race stint, and the other team is testing a last 15 lap, engine turned up, burning fuel stint.
Every decision later in the year about how much fuel they can use and when, if its best to sit back from that car and cruise and go faster later, or if its desparate to go maxed out and get past that guy infront or your race is over, in large part comes from these tests and seeing how the car reacts in various situations, so the more variation on stints the better as its more data. Knowing the car sucks under heavy fuel if you are trying to go fast or slow, if tyre deg is the same going maxed out or slow, then whats the point of going slow. Burning through fuel with higher engine settings might make more difference to lap time under a heavy fuel load than a low one, they'll only know that through testing all these situations out though.
Ultimately the mediums were slower than hards stuff, was without knowing what teams were doing on their runs so its all guesswork. The longer the run the better info you can guess because at least you know whatever they were doing had loads of fuel on board.
You could say Perez's time is rubbish because Hamilton was on a 10 lap run on harder tyres and not much slower, Perez could have had 20 laps of fuel on board, but only went out for 3 though
Ultimately Hamilton's time was good because it was a hard tyre and a 10 lap run, so we know for certain it wasn't the fastest tyre or the lowest fuel load... Perez's time, looks half decent, if he had loads of fuel on board, its a great time, almost no fuel, it actually seems a little slow vs the Hamilton time.
Its all about the goals, without knowing what the teams are trying to learn, the times mean very little.
Yeah absolutely, you make some good point but I have to disagree.
This is F1 testing.
We must speculate about everything and make assumptions based on our slight bias towards a team and/or driver. It's worth noting that all assumptions are correct as well
Fuel loads, tyres, weather and car design have nothing to do with it
not necessarily true however - from the last test hard's were faster where they not (illogically)?
I think Ted mentioned it in one of his notebooks
Q3 worse, holy ****
Sounds awful if this is what happens
Soldato
The problem isn't the tyres, its the allocation amounts. They teams have less tyres per weekend than they used to when they ran the rock hard Bridgestones that would last forever!
They need to provide the teams with more tyres, and ensure some of the alocation is for Qualifying only to ensure they always have enough for all three sessions. Give the teams 2 more sets, make 1 of them have to be handed back after Qualifying, and remove the start on your qualifying tyres rule, and your sorted.
They need to provide the teams with more tyres, and ensure some of the alocation is for Qualifying only to ensure they always have enough for all three sessions. Give the teams 2 more sets, make 1 of them have to be handed back after Qualifying, and remove the start on your qualifying tyres rule, and your sorted.
Soldato
Just look at their last 5 seasons in F1
Caporegime
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Pirelli have said its the temps 9am coupled with sub 15c temps mean they grain badly over a few laps before they are up to temp. Its not that they are wearing out over time, its that they are graining early before they get to temp and they seem completely certain that in usual race weekend conditions it won't be a problem and said much the same happened last year.
Would help if someone went out with 20 laps fuel and crept round the corners for a few laps, see if they could then get a useful run out of it.
Either way, Maldonado did his 22.6 on softs with a one lap run, Ferrari with what a 22.1-2 on softs on a 3 lap run or so, Rossberg on a slightly faster lap than Maldonado, longer run and on mediums, Webber did a very short run on mediums and got a 23.0, Button and Sutil on several lap runs on the mediums doing 23.6's.
Does certainly seem like Rossberg's time on a slower tyre and not a no fuel run, is the most impressive. Maldonado's one lap quali style run on softs being slower than Merc on a longer run/slower tyre, and half a second off the Ferrari doesn't seem a great time at all, infact it seems a bit poo.
EDIT:- do'h, misreading the tables a bit, not as many laps as I thought but that goes for everyone, still Rossberg out for the longest after his time and most laps though.
Maldonado doing some interesting times now in terms of watching pace. Race simulation it would seem as he's pitting then going straight back out, done two stints and on his third, came out with 1.32's and went in doing 1.34's, then second stint started with 1.30's, ending with close to 1.32's, and last stint started with 1.29's, then straight to 1.30's and up towards 1.32's towards the end of the stint, over 50 laps or so the tyres are losing 2 seconds over 15-20 laps it would seem at "race" pace.
With their race pace being 10 seconds off fastest times we've seen so far, so maybe the tyres aren't doing to bad on race pace, or maybe that Williams is several seconds slower on race pace than everyone else and with faster times the tyres would be losing more time, who knows. Only guy doing anything remotely resembling a race simulation, hopefully we'll see someone else do the same later.
Button does what appears to be a quali style run on the hard tyre with a 22.8. If indeed the hard tyre is faster than the medium(still not convinced) that really does make the 22.6 of Rossberg look very impressive. Sauber and Grosjean going low 22.'s on softs, both on short runs 1-2 laps.
Would help if someone went out with 20 laps fuel and crept round the corners for a few laps, see if they could then get a useful run out of it.
Either way, Maldonado did his 22.6 on softs with a one lap run, Ferrari with what a 22.1-2 on softs on a 3 lap run or so, Rossberg on a slightly faster lap than Maldonado, longer run and on mediums, Webber did a very short run on mediums and got a 23.0, Button and Sutil on several lap runs on the mediums doing 23.6's.
Does certainly seem like Rossberg's time on a slower tyre and not a no fuel run, is the most impressive. Maldonado's one lap quali style run on softs being slower than Merc on a longer run/slower tyre, and half a second off the Ferrari doesn't seem a great time at all, infact it seems a bit poo.
EDIT:- do'h, misreading the tables a bit, not as many laps as I thought but that goes for everyone, still Rossberg out for the longest after his time and most laps though.
Maldonado doing some interesting times now in terms of watching pace. Race simulation it would seem as he's pitting then going straight back out, done two stints and on his third, came out with 1.32's and went in doing 1.34's, then second stint started with 1.30's, ending with close to 1.32's, and last stint started with 1.29's, then straight to 1.30's and up towards 1.32's towards the end of the stint, over 50 laps or so the tyres are losing 2 seconds over 15-20 laps it would seem at "race" pace.
With their race pace being 10 seconds off fastest times we've seen so far, so maybe the tyres aren't doing to bad on race pace, or maybe that Williams is several seconds slower on race pace than everyone else and with faster times the tyres would be losing more time, who knows. Only guy doing anything remotely resembling a race simulation, hopefully we'll see someone else do the same later.
Button does what appears to be a quali style run on the hard tyre with a 22.8. If indeed the hard tyre is faster than the medium(still not convinced) that really does make the 22.6 of Rossberg look very impressive. Sauber and Grosjean going low 22.'s on softs, both on short runs 1-2 laps.
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Caporegime
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I can see it being true in the cold purely because, maybe the mediums are being damaged too much in the cold phase, and as they aren't much faster anyway, when grained, they end up slower, and maybe the hards are simply lasting better through the first few laps of graining. Of course if its only a one lap quali run, who knows.
Maldonado on another stint, 28's to 31's over the stint, seemingly on a lot less fuel the car isn't gaining much time, tyres might just not be able to cope with faster pace for that number of laps.
EDIT;- just half realised why Maldonado was out putting in the laps hard, because they are swapping drivers around, did a 65lap "race", 4 stints, not massive drop in times from start to finish of each stint, but not seemingly that fast compared to everyones testing for speed times. So other than doing race simulation it was probably about getting in as much running before the switch as possible.
Maldonado on another stint, 28's to 31's over the stint, seemingly on a lot less fuel the car isn't gaining much time, tyres might just not be able to cope with faster pace for that number of laps.
EDIT;- just half realised why Maldonado was out putting in the laps hard, because they are swapping drivers around, did a 65lap "race", 4 stints, not massive drop in times from start to finish of each stint, but not seemingly that fast compared to everyones testing for speed times. So other than doing race simulation it was probably about getting in as much running before the switch as possible.
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