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F1 2019 - News & Rumours

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by SpartaK, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. timmeh

    Mobster

    Joined: May 20, 2010

    Posts: 2,886

    Location: Englishman in the USA

    Ferrari had that at the start of last year. Just look in the China race thread, people were saying Ferrari were unbeatable and that it was Vettel’s year.
     
  2. 4K8KW10

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 4,224

    Ferrari lost speed during that race and Vettel lost many positions.
     
  3. SpartaK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 19, 2009

    Posts: 4,043

    Location: London

    Mainly just Mercedes fans who said that because they were not happy with the results. It's way too early to assume things so early on in the season tbh.
     
  4. 4K8KW10

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 4,224

    I think they were just trying desperately to turn the luck, which actually happened :(
     
  5. Spunkey

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 13,529

    Location: The land of milk & beans

    Only if you believe in luck :)
     
  6. The_Abyss

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 9,829

    Location: Ipswich

    Let's add some context, as I see you're getting on Vettel's case again.

    Vettel qualified with a lap record
    He got away in first
    He was left exposed to Bottas by Kimi, who had a poor start
    The Ferrari team's strategy let Vettel down when he was undercut successfully by Bottas
    The Ferrari team's strategy let Vettel down by not pitting him during the safety car, or had no opportunity to pit him during the safety car. Take your pick. Interestingly, Mercedes could have pitted Hamilton but chose not to
    Vettel was now left exposed to the Red Bulls, much faster than anyone else due to their fresh tyres
    Ricciardo overtook Vettel on his much faster tyres
    Verstappen, who at this stage of the season was very much at 'peak Max', hit Vettel while trying to overtake him on his much faster tyres
    Verstappen was penalised by the marshals for this incident
    Vettel suffered damage to both car and tyres
    Vettel was subsequently much slower
    Even Alonso in a lol McLaren subsequently overtook him (with some relish and abruptness, I recall)

    So context is quite important to the statement that you made.
     
  7. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 71,675

    Location: Bedford


    So you are trying to say that because of all those issues Vettel lost many places.

    Not because (in reality, in my personal opinion) he is a driver, who in such circumstances drops his head and says chuff it I can't be arsed to fight.

    Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton, and many other seriously talented drivers in that exact position, in that exact car, would not have allowed many of those overtakes, they would have had the widest car on the track, they would have fought for every position, they would have just driven into the pits and demanded changes.

    That race plus many other incidents in many other races shows that Vettel is not a seriously class driver.
    Once out in front, he is fine, as is anyone else, but mid pack fighting for every inch of track, he is mediocre at best.
     
  8. The_Abyss

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 9,829

    Location: Ipswich

    Yes, that’s what I am saying. You’re in a deluded state if you attribute the performance solely to Vettel’s driving.
     
  9. 4K8KW10

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 4,224

    Pretty much this. The driver is the only person in the team who directly plays with and feels the car. No one else is to blame for his inaccuracies in 50% of the races, if not more.
     
  10. The_Abyss

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 9,829

    Location: Ipswich

    We’re not talking about other races. We all know that Vettel made a number of mistakes over the season. You were suggesting that he was directly responsible for losing the places at the 2018 Chinese Grand Prix. I presented a list of facts to the contrary. You dispute this without providing anything in return. You’re incapable of seeing anything other than that which you want to see.
     
  11. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 71,675

    Location: Bedford

    Not solely no, but I would suggest a good 90 to 95% were directly attributable to Vettel and not the team.

    I am suggesting many other drivers who thrive under high pressure situations and do not fold at the merest hint of decent pressure, would not have lost as many places in the Chinese grand Prix.
     
  12. The_Abyss

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 9,829

    Location: Ipswich

    Well I think you're incorrect on both counts, especially the China 2018 result.

    But that's the beauty of F1 - much is hidden and the subject of opinion. I didn't see many of the China GP overtakes as buckling under pressure - in my view they were more Vettel being the victim of being in front of far faster cars at the time (a McLaren ffs, A 2018 MCLAREN!). There are some good examples of Vettel folding under pressure, including the first and biggest of them all, Canada 2011. But China 2018 is not one of them.
     
  13. Spunkey

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 13,529

    Location: The land of milk & beans

    If we're talking about China, then his lack of pace after being Verstappened was also caused by him lighting up his rear tyres for 10 seconds and completely burning them away. At least when he spun again in Suzuka he remembered to look after the tyres when rejoining.

    Not so much an example of him buckling under pressure, but lack of forethought.