F1 2019 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!

Mick has matured brilliantly as a driver. if Max got a shot, Mick has earned it no less than Max.

He had a big weakness in qually, and has worked on it very well to pull himself up the grid to allow him to compete for wins.
 
MissChief said:
If Mick finishes the F3 season in the same sort of form he's in at the moment he'll beat Ticktum to the title. And get enough points for his Superlicence. Unlike Ticktum who, even if he wins the F3 title won't have enough. Mick has said though that he wants a season in F2 at least. I wouldn't like Mick in F1, because he'd get never ending questions about his Dad and journalists trying to trip him up into saying things that haven't been released to the press.
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Yes as the family are very protective he will be a public point of contact for his dads condition. Mind you he probably gets that now but not as high profile as in the F1 world.
Andi.
 
Mr Jack said:
Best driver? Isn't Perez staying and Ocon going?

I'm not sure why you think Stroll is that bad, his record prior to F1 is solid, he's done okay in a mediocre team. In his first season he was the only driver not in a top three car to take a podium. He wouldn't be a candidate for promotion without his dad's money but he's doing as well as can be expected in the car he's driving.
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You don't think Ocon is better than Perez? Ocon has out-raced Perez this year (8:5, 8:3 when both drivers finish). He gave him a run for his money in his rookie year too.

Maybe I am being too hard on him but he's not as good as the driver he's likely going to be replacing, all because his dad bought him an F1 team.

MagicBoy said:
It's not happened in recent memory but we've had teams enter to run specific drivers. David Purley ran a team financed by the family business (LEC Refrigerators) in the 70s. There were number in the 89-91 period when the entry list exploded and media coverage was more muted. Most were with terrible teams that usually didn't make it onto the starting grid.

More recently we've have sponsors bankrolling/investing in teams who run certain drivers. Diniz and Maldonardo are prime candidates. With a bit of extension you can include Perez. Even Alonso brought considerable sponsorship from Santander a few years ago...

I've some reservations about Stroll, but he's got some talent. You don't fluke a podium at Baku.
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He definitely fluked that podium. That race, like most of them at Baku, was a complete cluster. You think that if the cars in front didn't have their issues that he'd have caught up and passed them? Was Pique Jr's win at Hockenheim a fluke?

I think the thing that's making me feel it's a **** poor state is that to me pay drivers are supposed to get into **** teams then their talent gets them into front running teams. Having your financial backers (Stroll's dad in this case) buy a team just to get into a better car is just wrong, especially when you're ousting drivers who are more deserving of that seat.
 
timmeh said:
You don't think Ocon is better than Perez? Ocon has out-raced Perez this year (8:5, 8:3 when both drivers finish). He gave him a run for his money in his rookie year too.
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Perez is ahead on points. I think they're fairly evenly matched with Perez currently having the edge. Ocon is less experienced however.

He definitely fluked that podium. That race, like most of them at Baku, was a complete cluster. You think that if the cars in front didn't have their issues that he'd have caught up and passed them?
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Depends what you mean by fluke, I guess. Yes, Stroll benefited from luck in the race but he did that because he drove well and seized his opportunity with both hands. That's just F1, surely?
 
Mr Jack said:
Perez is ahead on points. I think they're fairly evenly matched with Perez currently having the edge. Ocon is less experienced however.
Depends what you mean by fluke, I guess. Yes, Stroll benefited from luck in the race but he did that because he drove well and seized his opportunity with both hands. That's just F1, surely?
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Absolutely F1 relies on being in the right place at the right time and not binning it. I'm sure you could look at many drivers results and pick a few here and there that only came about because of other drivers retiring or crashing. It's F1, to finish first you must first finish. Lets face it, anyone outside Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari expecting to finish above 7th has to expect a retirement, mistake or other issue to befall one of them. Even when one of them starts from the back such is the performance differential across most of the field you can expect any driver from those three teams to finish 6th or better.
 
timmeh said:
He definitely fluked that podium. That race, like most of them at Baku, was a complete cluster. You think that if the cars in front didn't have their issues that he'd have caught up and passed them? Was Pique Jr's win at Hockenheim a fluke?
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It's a street circuit, in an F1 car. Which is a big test of overall driver skill. The best F1 drivers aren't those with stunning single lap pace and the fastest car. A podium even with some good fortune is a damn good result. He made the most of a good opportunity.

Piquet Jr never won an F1 race. Only ever got on the podium once IIRC. :confused:
 
Mr Jack said:
Perez is ahead on points. I think they're fairly evenly matched with Perez currently having the edge. Ocon is less experienced however.
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Yeah, he's only got the points lead because of his podium in Baku (which you could argue was a fluke :p ) vs Ocon's DNF. Ocon has had 2 more DNF's than Perez and is only 1 point behind.

Mr Jack said:
Depends what you mean by fluke, I guess. Yes, Stroll benefited from luck in the race but he did that because he drove well and seized his opportunity with both hands. That's just F1, surely?
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Yeah it was a solid drive, and if he'd driven in exactly the same manner and everything in front hadn't happened, he'd have most likely finished 7th.

I'm not denying that luck is absolutely part of what F1; I'm saying that his driving ability didn't get him the podium. Vettel's win in Australia ( I think ) was a complete fluke because of the VSC timing.

MagicBoy said:
It's a street circuit, in an F1 car. Which is a big test of overall driver skill. The best F1 drivers aren't those with stunning single lap pace and the fastest car. A podium even with some good fortune is a damn good result. He made the most of a good opportunity.

Piquet Jr never won an F1 race. Only ever got on the podium once IIRC. :confused:
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I never said it wasn't a good result. I'm questioning why people are basing their rating of him on one-off, fluke podium.

Oops my bad, 2nd place, not win. My point still stands.
 
The fact is, Stroll has nowhere to hide at Sauber Racing Point. He has had time to get used to F1, has a team that will have to be backing him and it will be time to perform.

Then we will start to know where he stands

*Eurgh, brain fart, RE Sauber!!
 
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timmeh said:
I never said it wasn't a good result. I'm questioning why people are basing their rating of him on one-off, fluke podium.
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I'm not, I'm using the 2017 results. Given that he was a rookie, Stroll stacked up OK against Massa (who very nearly won the 2008 title). Massa invariably out qualified Stroll, in the second half of the season it was 4:4 for race results.

Yeah, Daddy Stroll bought a racing team, but the kid is far from out of his depth. F1 has always had pay drivers, and those who are there for commercial reasons ahead of talent.

I don't recall the same backlash against Longbow finance buying Sauber for similar reasons...
 
I think you're misunderstanding my point. My issue isn't about pay drivers, it's about pay drivers replacing drivers who have earned their seat. Ocon was no doubt a pay driver (Merc) when he went into FI but he didn't force someone out of the sport who had earned their place by proving their talent.

Ericsson was already at Sauber when Longbow bought into the team and when he joined the team he was replacing Sutil, hardly one of F1's up-and-comers.

If someone like PDVSA came in and bought Red Bull and replaced Verstappen or Gasly with Maldonado, booting them off the grid completely, that would be ok because it's F1 operates?
 
Lets face it, unless you're part of a young driver program you need sponsorship to get into any low level team. Things start getting expensive in British F3 then even more so into Euro F3 and onwards. A season in British F3 will be £750k-£1m by the time you count hotels, food, parts, Mechanics, replacement parts etc. A driver would probably be expected to contribute 10-15% of that at a minimum. Of course there are certain economies of scale in running two cars but you'll be looking at £1.2-£1.5M or so total budget and it's likely both drivers will be expected to bring in 20-25% of that combined.

An F2 team is something from £3m-£5m depending on team, drivers etc. Again Sponsorship is likely to pay more due to better international coverage. Your £10k deal with 'Dave's tiling and bathroom emporium' in your local hometown or because your Dad is friends with Dave just won't cut it anymore. This is where being a young driver can help open doors but even than I'd be expecting a driver to contribute anything from £250k upwards in some way, be that from the F1 team looking to place their driver into F2 or sponsorship. It's been a very long time since talent alone would open doors than sponsorship didn't. Even Niki Lauda, Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost brought money to their teams to begin with.
 
timmeh said:
If someone like PDVSA came in and bought Red Bull and replaced Verstappen or Gasly with Maldonado, booting them off the grid completely, that would be ok because it's F1 operates?
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PDVSA effectively did that in 2011 with a wheelbarrow of cash strapped to Maldonado. Hulk was let go by Williams in the middle of November of 2010 and ended up on the reserve driver list for 2011. End result is the same irrespective of it being a rich daddy or a state run oil company.

Back to 2018 .... Force India went into administration, so Ocon was out of a drive if the team failed and disappeared into the mists of time anyway. The Daddy Stroll lead consortium bought the team (ignoring the assets/team entry complexity) from the administrators. It wasn't a hostile takeover or buyout ... just a business opportunity. If there's blame attached to anyone it's Mallya and Sahara group.
 
MagicBoy said:
It's a street circuit, in an F1 car. Which is a big test of overall driver skill. The best F1 drivers aren't those with stunning single lap pace and the fastest car. A podium even with some good fortune is a damn good result. He made the most of a good opportunity.
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Yeah, this. If you're going to discount Stroll's podium at Baku, you're basically saying that any win by anyone who isn't in one of the fastest cars is a "fluke". Of course he wouldn't have won if the cars ahead hadn't had trouble - if Vettel hadn't rammed Hamilton twice under the safety car, if Bottas and Kimi hadn't tangled, etc. - but that doesn't make it a "fluke", it just means he took his chance when it was there. If he'd, say, been approaching the pit when a safety car was called and jumped a dozen places because of it, I'd be willing to call it a fluke, but winning because the cars ahead of you made a hash of it? That's just F1. Good results, especially for drivers in lower teams, require a splash of luck.
 
That makes good sense. A stellar 1/2 season in F3 shouldn't be a reason to be in F1, no matter what your surname is. A season or two in F2 and Mick will be more than ready.




Inb4 'but Raikkonen'
 
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