Poll: F1 2022 - Pre-season testing and discussion

[this_is_gav]

Edit: Delete. Seen it's been mentioned already.

 

[Entai]

Let it go man,

Ride height is defined like that as otherwise we would be in a situation where teams would have a car with 5mm clearance (say that was the minimum) on the grid, that would then be 1-2mm on the straights with downforce. Ride height is a product of weight, downforce, suspension, cornering speed and likely other things I can’t think of. Using the wood block rule it stops teams doing exactly what happened with the wing flexing situation where you box tick to show you adhere to the rule in a specific situation knowing full well that you breach it when over 30mph. What better way for a rule to be enforced than it take in to account all factors of weight..etc and disqualify those who breach with a clear scientific metric with no wiggle room.

Armchair experts, think they know so much from reading Google

 

[Slam62]

Ride height is defined like that as otherwise we would be in a situation where teams would have a car with 5mm clearance (say that was the minimum) on the grid, that would then be 1-2mm on the straights with downforce. Ride height is a product of weight, downforce, suspension, cornering speed and likely other things I can’t think of. Using the wood block rule it stops teams doing exactly what happened with the wing flexing situation where you box tick to show you adhere to the rule in a specific situation knowing full well that you breach it when over 30mph. What better way for a rule to be enforced than it take in to account all factors of weight..etc and disqualify those who breach with a clear scientific metric with no wiggle room.

It seems to me that the plank is a bit agricultural and of course it is probably the thing that hinders wet running the most.
Presumably they've looked into other methods though and can't come up with anything that works.

 

[Slam62]

Looks like a lot less porpoiseing today

 

[Kanpai]

Armchair experts, think they know so much from reading Google

Do you work in F1?

 

[this_is_gav]

It seems to me that the plank is a bit agricultural and of course it is probably the thing that hinders wet running the most.

Nah, the tyres fill with water and aquaplane before the car itself can these days (or did with the last generation of cars). The wet tyres (not sure about inters) actually raise the car too.

Mercedes looks much, much better today, both on the straights and especially through the corners.

The Pink Alpine looks a lot better than old Pink Mercedes did. The livery flows better and works on these cars.

 

[Slam62]

Do you work in F1?

Moi? No

 

[Slam62]

Is the pink a permanent change or a one off?

 

[Entai]

Looks like a lot less porpoiseing today

Look closely, they are all running higher than the cars that were having porpoiseing issues.

Increase ride height by even as little as maybe 1 or 2mm will heavily reduce it, increase by 5mm and that will virtually eliminate it. However you will loose around half a second a lap or more.

Lots of these this morning are running way higher, clear daylight under the floor even at high speed points on the straights.

It is all about the balance of handling, ride quality, and performance exactly as the new rules try to implement. Go for one you loose the others.

Moment cars try running lower ride height to get the seal down the edge of the floor, to increase downforce, you will see the sparks, and porpoising again.

Simple by eye check, if you are getting sparks, you will be getting porpoiseing.

No sparks, and they are running at a height where porpoiseing is heavily reduced, or eliminated.


The vast majority of these runs during testing are developmental, not performance testing.

Maybe on last day of testing we will get more going for performance runs.

 

[Entai]

Do you work in F1?

Not currently no, but have had almost 30 years experience in the industry.
Started in the early 80's finishing just after Merc bought out Brawn.

 

[Entai]

Nah, the tyres fill with water and aquaplane before the car itself can these days (or did with the last generation of cars). The wet tyres (not sure about inters) actually raise the car too.

Mercedes looks much, much better today, both on the straights and especially through the corners.

The Pink Alpine looks a lot better than old Pink Mercedes did. The livery flows better and works on these cars.

Excuse me?

Does that read exactly as you meant it to?

 

[jaybee]

I think I read that if 80% of teams agree about pretty much anything being too advantageous on a car, it can be banned. That can't be right surely? Otherwise what is the point in any team coming up with a good new idea and pushing boundaries.
I'll be really annoyed if we keep seeing cars being told to drop things like DAS and possibly these new smaller side pods. It's just more manipulation for a "show" and not the pinnacle of car design and competitivity. It hampers progress and penalises engineers for doing a good job.

It seems to be double standards as well. Braun were allowed to keep the double diffuser thing dominating for an entire season and won the champ due to it. But other teams got asked to drop things more quickly. Sometimes to drop things for the following season. I still don't like it. It's all a bit too controlled for my liking, and where you bring in control to make things "close" and "for the fans" it massively complicated where the line is between interfering and allowing racing and competitivity and winding things back in to make it all closer. Merc have suffered this with the low rake car thing as well. It just feels like Redbull (and Ferrari a lot in the past) cry "they're too fast due to X" and then the FIA sympathise for the babies. It feels very amateur. At the height of other sports we see budget capping and fair play procedures - which again are mainly financial - but never would we see a football team be told to not take corners in a certain way because they are too effective.

 

[englishpremier]

It wasn't made up at all, source for your claims?

You weren't responding to me, but I watched the first session yesterday and they interviewed Horner. He said he was surprised to see him quoted about the Mercedes since he never said anything. The BBC article even states this, but then continues to quote from Auto Motor Und Sport for dramatic effect.

 

[Slam62]

Yeah they do look to be higher, times look similar I think.

 

[jaybee]

I read somewhere that Redbull had to go back on their defence that Horner did not saying anything by changing it to something like no "official" response from Horner was made. In other words, he may have said something to someone which got picked up somewhere. Even if he didn't, he won't be able to help himself in time anyway.

 

[Mr Jack]

Latifi on fire!

Er, literally. His car is on fire. Looks like Williams day is gone.

 

[Slam62]

Oh dear williams has melted

 

[Mr Jack]

I read somewhere that Redbull had to go back on their defence that Horner did not saying anything by changing it to something like no "official" response from Horner was made. In other words, he may have said something to someone which got picked up somewhere. Even if he didn't, he won't be able to help himself in time anyway.

Yeah, he absolutely said it to Michael Schmidt (who is not a journalist who makes **** up, link in German). Possibly he thought he was just chatting rather than making an on-record comment; but you say something to a journalist and they have every right to report it and it was bad form of Red Bull to deny it.

 

[Entai]

I think I read that if 80% of teams agree about pretty much anything being too advantageous on a car, it can be banned. That can't be right surely? Otherwise what is the point in any team coming up with a good new idea and pushing boundaries.
I'll be really annoyed if we keep seeing cars being told to drop things like DAS and possibly these new smaller side pods. It's just more manipulation for a "show" and not the pinnacle of car design and competitivity. It hampers progress and penalises engineers for doing a good job.

It seems to be double standards as well. Braun were allowed to keep the double diffuser thing dominating for an entire season and won the champ due to it. But other teams got asked to drop things more quickly. Sometimes to drop things for the following season. I still don't like it. It's all a bit too controlled for my liking, and where you bring in control to make things "close" and "for the fans" it massively complicated where the line is between interfering and allowing racing and competitivity and winding things back in to make it all closer. Merc have suffered this with the low rake car thing as well. It just feels like Redbull (and Ferrari a lot in the past) cry "they're too fast due to X" and then the FIA sympathise for the babies. It feels very amateur. At the height of other sports we see budget capping and fair play procedures - which again are mainly financial - but never would we see a football team be told to not take corners in a certain way because they are too effective.

As Ross Brawn says, it works both ways.

“It’s a circular thing. If you know that eight teams, the FIA and F1 could stop you doing something if they feel it’s wrong, then you’re a bit more circumspect in doing it knowing that could be an issue.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-fias-new-philosophy-in-combatting-f1-design-loopholes/

 

[Jono8]

Man I hadn't realised how bad this porpoising thing was!

https://streamable.com/wwsmng

That looks horrible for the drivers.