F1 Pre-Season Test Week 4: Barcelona 8th - 11th March

sunama · 13 Mar 2011 at 17:15

Arknor, you are assuming that MSc is what he used to be.

Based on last year (only), MSc is not the same driver he used to be. Last year was the first time he has ever been outperformed by a team-mate in F1 and that team-mate who outperformed him, is certainly not anywhere near the best that F1 has to offer. Had he driven alongside Hamilton or Alonso, the points gap would've been larger and it could've been quite embarrassing.

In the first part of his career, IMO, he was the most complete driver F1 has ever seen. By quite a long way. In his 2nd career, he is a shadow of his former self.

It will be interesting to see if he can outperform his team-mate this year. My guess is that he will, but not by the same sort of margin that we saw him do in the first part of his career.

Owenb · 13 Mar 2011 at 17:25

Kerming said:
Some of you on here don't half make me laugh out loud some times. oh its all over, awww, mclaren are not showing their hand aww its all over, RBR are gunna win. listen, this is TESTING!, nobody is going to show their pace until race day.

NOBODY can make any judgment by these times. end of story.

just focus on the details, little tweeks under the skin ect.

It's not just the times, it's the comments from inside and outside the team. Everyone that has seen the car in action has said that it's slow- including the guys that have driven it! On top of that they can't seem to go 20 laps without having an exhaust failure. They will need some massive updates to be competitive in the first 3 races.

Most people are giving RB the edge right now but Alonso is my favourite for Melbourne. Red bull's strength over the last few years has been their great aero which is hugely important at Barcelona but less so on the streets of Melbourne- Alonso was within 2 tenths of Vettel last year but a full second away in Barcelona. Merc's could be a close third as the track should also suit them.

Duke · 13 Mar 2011 at 18:01

Ferrari certainly have good reliability.

dannyjo22 · 13 Mar 2011 at 20:23

One thing for sure, if Merc have a regular race winning car Jenson will look a bit foolish again with career path choice.

Duke · 13 Mar 2011 at 20:43

I hope you're joking.

Tweaker · 13 Mar 2011 at 20:53

dannyjo22 said:
One thing for sure, if Merc have a regular race winning car Jenson will look a bit foolish again with career path choice.

He would have got less money and most likely been the number 2 driver at Merc, he seems to have a better situation with McLaren.

Kerming · 13 Mar 2011 at 22:40

Mr Jack said:
In the earlier tests, yes, but in the warmer conditions on the 10th, it was much lower. These are probably closer to race conditions.

did i mension its pre-season TESTING!

arknor · 14 Mar 2011 at 08:31

whatever you guys think about testing we know 1:21.XX times are deadly serious as vettel as showed a lot of intrest in anyone who has managed a time that low.

look at all the comments hes made to autosport , bilde etc during testing

FrankJH · 14 Mar 2011 at 10:00

dannyjo22 said:
One thing for sure, if Merc have a regular race winning car Jenson will look a bit foolish again with career path choice.

Forgetting two hard faught, and well deserved, victories last season (which would never have been possible at Merc)

Thats despite the obvious double -dealing that Brawn / Merc were doing last winter (plainly not wanting JB to stay)

His manager may have made a error in the original Williams deal - but JB was correct in how he faught to stay in BAR (to win his first race no less), and which cost him a huge amount of money. He literally paid for his mistake, cant ask for anything less.

Dont think HE ever looked foolish (his previous manager did for sure)

dannyjo22 · 14 Mar 2011 at 10:16

Duke said:
I hope you're joking.

No, lets assume for the minute that the Merc is the fastest car and goes onto win the title. He will have walked away from that into a team that has won one title in 13 years and don't look like they can ever build back to back challengers or even build on the success of a previous car.

Tweaker said:
He would have got less money and most likely been the number 2 driver at Merc, he seems to have a better situation with McLaren.

He was offered atleast as much money to drive for Mercedes and he wouldn't have been no2 to rosberg. They wouldn't have offered a no2 multiple times more money than rosberg to be a no2.

FrankJH said:
Forgetting two hard faught, and well deserved, victories last season (which would never have been possible at Merc)

Two wins or another title?

I suggest winning a title at Mclaren is not going to happen for two reasons. They take 6 months to get the car to challenge and Lewis Hamilton.

Beating Rosberg wouldn't have been such an issue IF mercedes have built a great car.

Hopefully the Mclaren is the best car and it won't look like such a mistake.

arknor · 14 Mar 2011 at 11:14

Thats despite the obvious double -dealing that Brawn / Merc were doing last winter (plainly not wanting JB to stay)

i thought they made him an offer but for not as much money as he thought a WDC should be earning :confused:

sunama · 14 Mar 2011 at 11:33

Had Button stayed at BrawnGP/Merc, would he not be partnering MSc (instead of Rosberg)?

Dup · 14 Mar 2011 at 12:00

arknor said:
i thought they made him an offer but for not as much money as he thought a WDC should be earning

Yes, they offered him naff all to get rid of him. Has done Jenson the world of good, instead of doing Hill!

Duke · 14 Mar 2011 at 12:19

sunama said:
Had Button stayed at BrawnGP/Merc, would he not be partnering MSc (instead of Rosberg)?

Nope would have been Rosberg I think.

sunama · 14 Mar 2011 at 13:09

In that case, Button would've stood a good chance at being their No.1, given that he was the reigning World Champ (though as we've seen before, being reigning WDC guarantees you nothing).

I still think Button made the right decision. I think Mercedes have expressed that they want to be an all German outfit and as such, Button's days at Mercedes would probably have been limited, even if he had stayed.

dannyjo22 · 14 Mar 2011 at 15:03

Dup said:
Yes, they offered him naff all to get rid of him. Has done Jenson the world of good, instead of doing Hill!

No they didn't, they initially offered a lower amount until they realised they might lose him. In the end they offered more than he went to mclaren for.

I highly doubt they would have kept offering more money for a driver they were going to lose and Brawn was a bit bitter about losing him afterwards.

Rosberg had already been signed, he would have partnered Button not Msc.

FrankJH · 14 Mar 2011 at 15:30

dannyjo22 said:
Two wins or another title?

I suggest winning a title at Mclaren is not going to happen for two reasons. They take 6 months to get the car to challenge and Lewis Hamilton.

Beating Rosberg wouldn't have been such an issue IF mercedes have built a great car.

Hopefully the Mclaren is the best car and it won't look like such a mistake.

They were already talking to MS at that point also - so undoubtedly JB would have had a **** season last year (not as bad as Hill @Arrows but nearly as bad being the reigning World Champ) - and if your own team dont value you, is there any point in trying to stay in the 1st place?

I VERY much doubt the Merc will be a match for the Ferrari or the Red Bull over the season - might get a few wins but nothing for a concerntrated title bid

Only you think it was a mistake anyway - not exactly the most damning proof

arknor said:
i thought they made him an offer but for not as much money as he thought a WDC should be earning

I think the Merc team knew what a No1 on their car would be worth, and prefered having MS back in the car instead and drastically undervalued the offer given to JB. (McLaren didnt exactly offer a lot either, but there were other reasons to go there as JB stated last season).

Duke said:
Nope would have been Rosberg I think.

Rosberg would have been test driver (or let out of his contract) and MS would have come back into "2nd" seat. Merc/Brawn were talking to JB and MS at the same time after already signing up Rosberg

Think JB made the right choice (even if it was slightly forced on him) no matter what this season (or the two after that which are on his McLaren contract) bring.

sunama · 14 Mar 2011 at 15:44

FrankJH said:
Merc/Brawn were talking to JB and MS at the same time after already signing up Rosberg

This was my understanding as well, though it may have been the case that once talks had broken down with Button, Merc began talks with MSc.

I'm sure a lot was going on (in a very short space of time), that we, the public, don't know about.

If Merc were serious about Button, they wouldn't have started mentioning the names of other drivers, after Rosberg had been signed.

dannyjo22 · 14 Mar 2011 at 15:52

FrankJH said:
Only you think it was a mistake anyway - not exactly the most damning proof .

You are reading something that isn't there. I said if the Merc turns out to be a consistent race winner and or title winner this year JB will have made another career mistake. Of course if the Merc isn't then he hasn't made a mistake.

It remains to be seen whether that will happen, but these days it's no worse than the mclaren option.

If this years car isn't a match for the Red Bull, ferrari and Merc Lewis should get the hell out. The team has no consistency in car building and was it was 98 the last time they built anything head and shoulders above the rest.

sunama · 14 Mar 2011 at 16:08

McLaren had a competitive car in both 2007 and 2008.