Fallout 4 to feature Nvidia Gameworks

[ALXAndy]

Pre order via steam, if it's broke get a refund, everyone's happy?

I'll wait and grab this in the steam xmas sale I think

I ain't gonna lie but unless I had it on launch day a part of me would die.

 

[FoxEye]

Not quite. The game itself retails for £50, so it's £30 for the Pip Boy and a free bobble head (these usually sell for £25-£30).

Steam has it for £40, and Steam tends to be the most expensive place.

It's £36 on Amazon UK for a physical copy.

 

[Jarrastafari]

This is a total myth...

This, a thousand times over

 

[Zeed]

I hope we can use Fallout 3/NV frofile to play it in 3D using TriDEF software on AMD and in VR next year.

Since Graphics looks like 5 year old game then our PCs should not have any problems as bac in New Vegas time i played it in 3d

 

[D3K]

Oh? in which way was my post in any way insulting?

Haha nevermind I totally read your post wrong.

 

[Ayahuasca]

This is a total myth.

Developers do not push out 'broken' games because they have so many pre-orders, they stop caring or get 'lazy'. Developers are not lazy whatsoever. They work grueling hours to get these big games ready for release day. The problem is the increasing complexity of game development along with the need to hit pre-designated released dates. Publishers set released dates well ahead of time because game development is super expensive and there is a cutoff to where they generally feel the cost of development is going to exceed what they think they can get back from sales. Publishers also typically have plans for what a studio does after they've completed whatever project they are working on. So there is a huge incentive to not delay games.

And really, you think any publisher can just look at pre-order sales and then just sit back and relax and not care about how the game sells afterwards? These games cost a ridiculous amount to develop and no company is going to want limit sales after launch. There is still every incentive to make the game as good as it can be on Day 1. Those sales are still every bit as important as any pre-order sales, if not moreso.

Seriously, people have such simplistic views of these things work that they just lazily point a finger at the easiest target, no matter how little they actually understand the process.

Pre-orders hurt nothing. I think the worst thing they've done is create the demand for pre-order incentives, where sometimes token and often useless bits of content(couple middling weapons or a couple short mediocre missions or something) are cut from the game to give incentive to pre-order. The reason they push pre-orders is because it provides them with the security of actual NEW game purchases at full price(or near enough full price). What they are battling against is the used games market, and the 'I'll wait til it's discounted' types. It has no effect on the actual development of a game.

Nailed it.

Time to stop thinking you're saving the industry by not pre-ordering. You're really not that special.

 

[Ian Evey]

I think the game looks nice. better than most games i have seen and with great gameplay to boot, hopefully.

 

[LambChop]

It's just the atmosphere Fallout creates. I know I will probably sound like a freak, but the way the game draws you in it makes you feel part of it. There are other games that draw me in like Metro and Bioshock etc but the best is an old game called Farenheit.

I click on those pre-order buttons as soon as I see them for these type of games. I'm hooked.

 

[D.P.]

This is a total myth.

Developers do not push out 'broken' games because they have so many pre-orders, they stop caring or get 'lazy'. Developers are not lazy whatsoever. They work grueling hours to get these big games ready for release day. The problem is the increasing complexity of game development along with the need to hit pre-designated released dates. Publishers set released dates well ahead of time because game development is super expensive and there is a cutoff to where they generally feel the cost of development is going to exceed what they think they can get back from sales. Publishers also typically have plans for what a studio does after they've completed whatever project they are working on. So there is a huge incentive to not delay games.

And really, you think any publisher can just look at pre-order sales and then just sit back and relax and not care about how the game sells afterwards? These games cost a ridiculous amount to develop and no company is going to want limit sales after launch. There is still every incentive to make the game as good as it can be on Day 1. Those sales are still every bit as important as any pre-order sales, if not moreso.

Seriously, people have such simplistic views of these things work that they just lazily point a finger at the easiest target, no matter how little they actually understand the process.

Pre-orders hurt nothing. I think the worst thing they've done is create the demand for pre-order incentives, where sometimes token and often useless bits of content(couple middling weapons or a couple short mediocre missions or something) are cut from the game to give incentive to pre-order. The reason they push pre-orders is because it provides them with the security of actual NEW game purchases at full price(or near enough full price). What they are battling against is the used games market, and the 'I'll wait til it's discounted' types. It has no effect on the actual development of a game.

Excellent post. Few people on OCUK seem to understand the complexity of a modern game, how the economics of developer studios work, how industry works in the real world (not hitting a Christmas release is simply not an option), how over-worked and over-stretched developers are.


Buggy games are nothing short of publishers requiring rigid release dates, finite budgets and 24 hours in a day (and a limit to how many 100 hour weeks the developers can pull off).



This si also why libraries like gamesworks are icnreaisng important in game development. Developers are increasingly pushed to either license existing engines or get assistance form 3rd parties. Only a few highly successful and rich independents like R* can play by their own rule book.

With DX12 this only compounds things,developers have even more work to do and will be seeking more assistance and to leverage additional external libraries to support their projects. DX12 flies in the complete opposite direction to modern software development. DX11 was like Python, lots of magic happening behind the scenes which the drivers would optimize away, DX12 is like forcing programmers to go back to C - you are on your own and will have to take care of a lot of things yourself.

 

[Klunt Bumskrint]

This is a total myth.

Developers do not push out 'broken' games because they have so many pre-orders, they stop caring or get 'lazy'. Developers are not lazy whatsoever. They work grueling hours to get these big games ready for release day. The problem is the increasing complexity of game development along with the need to hit pre-designated released dates. Publishers set released dates well ahead of time because game development is super expensive and there is a cutoff to where they generally feel the cost of development is going to exceed what they think they can get back from sales. Publishers also typically have plans for what a studio does after they've completed whatever project they are working on. So there is a huge incentive to not delay games.

And really, you think any publisher can just look at pre-order sales and then just sit back and relax and not care about how the game sells afterwards? These games cost a ridiculous amount to develop and no company is going to want limit sales after launch. There is still every incentive to make the game as good as it can be on Day 1. Those sales are still every bit as important as any pre-order sales, if not moreso.

Seriously, people have such simplistic views of these things work that they just lazily point a finger at the easiest target, no matter how little they actually understand the process.

Pre-orders hurt nothing. I think the worst thing they've done is create the demand for pre-order incentives, where sometimes token and often useless bits of content(couple middling weapons or a couple short mediocre missions or something) are cut from the game to give incentive to pre-order. The reason they push pre-orders is because it provides them with the security of actual NEW game purchases at full price(or near enough full price). What they are battling against is the used games market, and the 'I'll wait til it's discounted' types. It has no effect on the actual development of a game.

I am not saying they see the pre-orders then think sod it. If they didn't sell any games until they worked perfectly or got great scores then it would push them to not have these issues. Batman AK for example, absolute laziness and penny pinching but they knew people would buy it and they would control the damage afterwards. Watch Dogs, they Lied.
As for games being hard to make etc. Boo hoo. It's not a reason to release a crap broken game. Don't release games until they're ready.

Anyway. Back on topic.
I'm really physced about FO4 but they'll only get my money if the game runs properly and is good, I was looking at vids and remembering how much I enjoyed FO3 and how atmospheric it felt. It even got me into 40's music. The Ink Spots FTW

 

[russ21282]

This is a total myth.

The problem is the increasing complexity of game development along with the need to hit pre-designated released dates. Publishers set released dates well ahead of time because game development is super expensive and there is a cutoff to where they generally feel the cost of development is going to exceed what they think they can get back from sales. Publishers also typically have plans for what a studio does after they've completed whatever project they are working on. So there is a huge incentive to not delay games.

Whilst I don't disagree about the complexity of game development and the dedication of developers, those aren't valid excuses for a game to be broken on release. It's simply down to bad project management.

Physical products generally can't be fixed with a patch, so they need to get them right first time within budgets and on release dates.

Pre-ordering used to be used so people could get things on release without worrying about them selling out. There isn't really any reason for pre-ordering digital products.

I'm not knocking it though, people can do whatever they want.

 

[spulse]

well that launch trailer's got me hyped!

 

[Baboonanza]

Developers do not push out 'broken' games because they have so many pre-orders, they stop caring or get 'lazy'. Developers are not lazy whatsoever. They work grueling hours to get these big games ready for release day. The problem is the increasing complexity of game development along with the need to hit pre-designated released dates. Publishers set released dates well ahead of time because game development is super expensive and there is a cutoff to where they generally feel the cost of development is going to exceed what they think they can get back from sales. Publishers also typically have plans for what a studio does after they've completed whatever project they are working on. So there is a huge incentive to not delay games.

The major reason big games don't get delayed is the marketing push. At least as much money will have been spent on marketing Fallout 4 as has been spent making it and those plans cannot be pushed back without many months notice.

And pre-orders are terrible. Your argument would work if the choice was to pre-order or to buy on release day without reading reviews, and if you are going to buy the whatever condition it arrives in then fine, pre-order away.

But if people actually want publishers to improve their output they need to stop behaving like mindless consumers and wait until after realease and only buy good products. Those pre-order bonuses are clear signals that publishers want you to pre-order and that you tell us something

 

[Seanspeed]

I am not saying they see the pre-orders then think sod it. If they didn't sell any games until they worked perfectly or got great scores then it would push them to not have these issues. Batman AK for example, absolute laziness and penny pinching but they knew people would buy it and they would control the damage afterwards. Watch Dogs, they Lied.
As for games being hard to make etc. Boo hoo. It's not a reason to release a crap broken game. Don't release games until they're ready.

That's just not a feasible business model at times, though. Like I said, game development is complex. Very complex. Especially large, AAA games. You've likely got at least hundred people working on it(often several hundred), various departments all working on different aspects simultaneously and many times, things just dont come together as planned. Software development is like that. Things get complicated, but the release date stays the same. Because development is expensive. Programmers at big studios are getting paid pretty good money most of the time, and it takes a lot of time to create these topline games. The end result is an obscene amount of money being spent every week that development goes on. Publishers cannot justify an 'indefinite' release date. Some studios get this luxury, notably developers working on mega franchises like Gran Turismo or GTA, where returns are basically guaranteed no matter how much they spend, but this is not the reality for most other games. They cant afford to do that.

And *even then*, we still see games getting patches continually down the road nowadays. Look at The Witcher 3. We've had like 10 major matches addressing issues and I'm sure we'll see even more. TW3 saw multiple delays and I guarantee that while CDPR would have liked to have delayed the game further to iron these issues out that patches have been addressing, they simply couldn't justify all the money going out with nothing coming in. So they ultimately had to set a release date and deal with what they had, hoping it was 'good enough'(which I personally think it was, despite issues it still had/has). Just an example. Many other games go through these same issues all the time.

Whilst I don't disagree about the complexity of game development and the dedication of developers, those aren't valid excuses for a game to be broken on release. It's simply down to bad project management.

Physical products generally can't be fixed with a patch, so they need to get them right first time within budgets and on release dates.

Pre-ordering used to be used so people could get things on release without worrying about them selling out. There isn't really any reason for pre-ordering digital products.

I'm not knocking it though, people can do whatever they want.

Bad project management and even incompetence can definitely be a factor, though it's hard to ever know when this is the case. I'm not 'excusing' or saying we should be perfectly fine with games that release with issues. I'm saying that pre-orders are not to blame. They have absolutely no bearing on the release state of games.

For me, pre-orders can sometimes be worthwhile if I know I'm gonna get a game anyways and the pre-order offers a decent incentive(usually a slight discount). But I do know the risk I'm taking. I tend to only pre order games from devs I trust and I highly encourage others to do the same. I dont think pre-orders are evil, but you have to be careful with them, absolutely.

 

[Seanspeed]

But if people actually want publishers to improve their output they need to stop behaving like mindless consumers and wait until after realease and only buy good products. Those pre-order bonuses are clear signals that publishers want you to pre-order and that you tell us something

There's a balance. People should be more responsible, but the ugly truth is that we also need *some* people to not be responsible if we want to keep having these mega AAA games getting made. That marketing money works. They dont spend that much on advertising budgets for no reason. It helps sales dramatically. And not always for the worse. It helps the sales of many great games, too. Word of mouth just isn't enough to support the industry alone.

 

[pmc25]

I hope we can use Fallout 3/NV frofile to play it in 3D using TriDEF software on AMD and in VR next year.

Since Graphics looks like 5 year old game then our PCs should not have any problems as bac in New Vegas time i played it in 3d

It's a GameWorks game ... no way there's VR support. Plus the engine is (yet again for a Bethesda title) hard capped to 60FPS .. I imagine that means VR's impossible.

 

[Seanspeed]

It's a GameWorks game ... no way there's VR support. Plus the engine is (yet again for a Bethesda title) hard capped to 60FPS .. I imagine that means VR's impossible.

For one, it's not a Gameworks title.

Also, we haven't had any confirmation of it being hard capped at 60fps. Even if it is, it hasn't stopped plenty of people from playing and enjoying Skyrim in VR using the new VorpX software.

VR support will happen on PC. Probably not officially, but people will get it to work. Just a matter of how good it actually is to play it like that.

 

[Orangey]

Patrolling this thread almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.

 

[Baboonanza]

There's a balance. People should be more responsible, but the ugly truth is that we also need *some* people to not be responsible if we want to keep having these mega AAA games getting made. That marketing money works. They dont spend that much on advertising budgets for no reason. It helps sales dramatically. And not always for the worse. It helps the sales of many great games, too. Word of mouth just isn't enough to support the industry alone.

I wouldn't argue with that, and I'm not immune to the occasional pre-order myself (though I usually regret it) but I don't see how anyone can argue that it's a deal that's in the consumer's interest. And I guess pre-orders are simply one example of people buying based on marketing without taking care to examine the quality of the product before purchase. That is the real problem, but it's also not a problem unique to games.

Anyway, I have a Radeon so boo Game works

 

[Buck890]

Roll on next week, cannot wait for this, the wife is going to become a fallout widow.