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Fallout 4 to feature Nvidia Gameworks

You assume Nvidia have more power than they do over a games development and release. They are not the games developer or publisher so they have little to no say what state a game get released in. Your right they could pull there partner support as could AMD but to disassociate them self’s from such a massive release would be counterproductive for their business. If it was a much smaller title then sure I would agree with you it would have been an option.

Nvidia have gone on the record as saying one of the biggest value things they bring to a TWIMTBP/gameworks game is providing testing, so they absolutely DO, by their own mouth, get involved in the QA of games. Thus if we presume they were involved in Batman's QA... uh oh.

On top of that, they are a company supposedly with huge cash and power and they can pick and choose developers they want to throw cash at to use their gameworks code(or so they wan us to believe), yet the developers they work with aren't bringing out flawless games, but consistently buggy games. They continue to throw money at Ubisoft and providing their games for free when they are currently producing the most buggy most awful performance at launch games in the industry.

It's Nvidia's choice to work with Ubisoft, who keep making dire games with huge performance issues and Nvidia could chose to stop slapping their name on every Ubisoft game and stop paying them and bundling games with their GPUs. They could pick a reputable game dev who makes good games which would encourage Ubisoft to stop screwing around and make better games.

When a dev consistently screws up and Nvidia rewards them with millions more in game bundling/gameworks and providing testing deals it is only reinforcing that Nvidia believe Ubisoft are doing fine.

It's no where near as simple as you make it out, Nvidia DO have control, first because their code is being used and they make a huge point of talking up how many coders they send along to help a game out, they make a big deal about helping out in testing and they keep throwing money at the same company that is consistently the worst.

How many games, Fall Out 4 being no exception, is Nvidia involved with during coding, design and release that you can find dozens of performance/IQ tweaks within minutes that aren't included in the ultra setting to begin with?

Why are users adding sweetfx to make games look better when Nvidia is so heavily involved(as they tell us) that they aren't getting devs to make games look good from the start? Why did something like Watchdogs come out both performing horribly on powerful PCs including Nvidia ones, but also looking miles from anything in prerelease screen shots AND why was it days later someone else was hacking in IQ improvements there in the files that simply weren't enabled?

Nvidia is involved heavily with these games yet does and says nothing about most of these missing features, lowered IQ, poor performance and not only ignores them but makes new deals with the same company that keeps screwing over gamers?

They should be doing more with their testing, more with their onsite coders, more with their drivers and most importantly... stop working with the worst company in the business.

However that leads me to, if only the worst devs who consistently make dodgy games are using gameworks consistently, does Nvidia actually have a choice who is using it or are reputable devs refusing to use gameworks?
 
Not trying to argue with you but can you provide some evidence:
  • Where did Nvidia say they provide testing. Did that testing merely involve GamesWorks related features, specific graphical test, or was it a comprehensive test of the entire game engine. A lot of the issues people have with TWIMTBP games is not really gameworks related at all, bad engines, bad CPU profiles, crash bug, Ai bugs etc. I don't see Nvidia providing general QA of a game engine. They help developers with graphics, optimize some pixel shaders and test that the developer is not doing horrible things with the API or shaders. Most developers do a terrible job apparently and the both AMD and Nvidia driver team basically reverse engineer massive amounts of DX and shader code to get something reasonable. I read some enlightening discussion form a Nvidia driver engineer.
  • How many of these recent bad games have Nvidia actually given cash to? Most of the time they are simply providing engineer resources. When AMD was making ridiculous accusations over the whole Project CARS thing (and it was ridiculous e.g. claims of GPU physX when the game only uses CPU PhysX) it was very clear NVidia didn't give the developers a dime. The developers were just happy with the support form Nvidia.
  • nvidia choose to help games that are going to be popular, regardless if they are from developers with a poor track record. Nvidia actually caring about customer experience here, rather than holding some kind of ridiculous high horse stance that helps no one. these games will be released regardless of nvidia's involvement and would be played by scores of people, if Nvidia improve the experience in a a game that is going to be buggy as heck anyway, what exactly is the problem? Would it help if Nvidia ignored bad developers?
 
Not trying to argue with you but can you provide some evidence:
  • Where did Nvidia say they provide testing. Did that testing merely involve GamesWorks related features, specific graphical test, or was it a comprehensive test of the entire game engine. A lot of the issues people have with TWIMTBP games is not really gameworks related at all, bad engines, bad CPU profiles, crash bug, Ai bugs etc. I don't see Nvidia providing general QA of a game engine. They help developers with graphics, optimize some pixel shaders and test that the developer is not doing horrible things with the API or shaders. Most developers do a terrible job apparently and the both AMD and Nvidia driver team basically reverse engineer massive amounts of DX and shader code to get something reasonable. I read some enlightening discussion form a Nvidia driver engineer.
  • How many of these recent bad games have Nvidia actually given cash to? Most of the time they are simply providing engineer resources. When AMD was making ridiculous accusations over the whole Project CARS thing (and it was ridiculous e.g. claims of GPU physX when the game only uses CPU PhysX) it was very clear NVidia didn't give the developers a dime. The developers were just happy with the support form Nvidia.
  • nvidia choose to help games that are going to be popular, regardless if they are from developers with a poor track record. Nvidia actually caring about customer experience here, rather than holding some kind of ridiculous high horse stance that helps no one. these games will be released regardless of nvidia's involvement and would be played by scores of people, if Nvidia improve the experience in a a game that is going to be buggy as heck anyway, what exactly is the problem? Would it help if Nvidia ignored bad developers?

They paid for all the ubisoft games and they aren't improving the customer experience by backing a bad dev. In fact throwing your marketing weight behind such games encourages customers(mostly their own) to believe that game will be particularly good, most of those ubisoft games are turning out to be a joke and have been for multiple years now.

If those developers are going to make crap games, get your name off them and help devs who make good games. This will give sales to better deserving games and if anything Ubisoft would see Nvidia moving away from them as a sign to do better.

There is no point getting into bed with Ubisoft, and it's no better than ignoring them if while in bed with them you do absolutely nothing about all the issues plaguing their games on release.

Nvidia is supposed to be all about graphics, so they are involved in Watchdogs and have engineers working on the project who damn well know that IQ is being turned down with many options hidden/disabled for the PC launch and Nvidia did what about it? Here, have this game that performs terribly, stutters, has SLI/xfire issues and has loads of things that can make it look better disabled.

Ubisoft need a kick in the teeth, from both Nvidia, and customers to stop throwing money at them when they are screwing up so badly. Supporting them as they do this is basically encouraging them to keep going as they are.
 
They mention there are a few sections where the CPU seems to be the limiting factor. It's a bit of a shame that a company the size of Bethesda that has also got this running on the consoles with their low level API couldn't have included a DirectX 12 option in this game too. Apparently they've had the engine for a while and before DX12 there was Mantle, pity they never looked at adding in some paths for low level APIs.

Lazy developers that know the fanbase will buy it regardless of what they actually release?

Pretty sure its just the same old GameBryo engine they've been using since Morrowind its only DX9 capable never mind DX12

You're going to need a 60fps cap or expect physics issues too
 
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Nvidia have gone on the record as saying one of the biggest value things they bring to a TWIMTBP/gameworks game is providing testing, so they absolutely DO, by their own mouth, get involved in the QA of games. Thus if we presume they were involved in Batman's QA... uh oh.

On top of that, they are a company supposedly with huge cash and power and they can pick and choose developers they want to throw cash at to use their gameworks code(or so they wan us to believe), yet the developers they work with aren't bringing out flawless games, but consistently buggy games. They continue to throw money at Ubisoft and providing their games for free when they are currently producing the most buggy most awful performance at launch games in the industry.

It's Nvidia's choice to work with Ubisoft, who keep making dire games with huge performance issues and Nvidia could chose to stop slapping their name on every Ubisoft game and stop paying them and bundling games with their GPUs. They could pick a reputable game dev who makes good games which would encourage Ubisoft to stop screwing around and make better games.

When a dev consistently screws up and Nvidia rewards them with millions more in game bundling/gameworks and providing testing deals it is only reinforcing that Nvidia believe Ubisoft are doing fine.

It's no where near as simple as you make it out, Nvidia DO have control, first because their code is being used and they make a huge point of talking up how many coders they send along to help a game out, they make a big deal about helping out in testing and they keep throwing money at the same company that is consistently the worst.

How many games, Fall Out 4 being no exception, is Nvidia involved with during coding, design and release that you can find dozens of performance/IQ tweaks within minutes that aren't included in the ultra setting to begin with?

Why are users adding sweetfx to make games look better when Nvidia is so heavily involved(as they tell us) that they aren't getting devs to make games look good from the start? Why did something like Watchdogs come out both performing horribly on powerful PCs including Nvidia ones, but also looking miles from anything in prerelease screen shots AND why was it days later someone else was hacking in IQ improvements there in the files that simply weren't enabled?

Nvidia is involved heavily with these games yet does and says nothing about most of these missing features, lowered IQ, poor performance and not only ignores them but makes new deals with the same company that keeps screwing over gamers?

They should be doing more with their testing, more with their onsite coders, more with their drivers and most importantly... stop working with the worst company in the business.

However that leads me to, if only the worst devs who consistently make dodgy games are using gameworks consistently, does Nvidia actually have a choice who is using it or are reputable devs refusing to use gameworks?

Yep they do provide testing resource but having worked in software testing for games and games technology its one thing to find bugs its another getting them fixed. Its not Nvidia's choice to release a knowing buggy product

Its not the developers or Nvidia's or any other partners call at the end of the day its publishers. Do you think the likes of Activation give a ratts ass about the state of the PC version of black ops III not matter what nvidia, AMD or another partner say before releasing it ?


However that leads me to, if only the worst devs who consistently make dodgy games are using gameworks consistently, does Nvidia actually have a choice who is using it or are reputable devs refusing to use gameworks?

Developers and publishers who made buggy games did so before gameworks (Bethesda, Techland, Ubisoft I'm looking at you) but now some of those developers use gameworks its suddenly all Nvidia's fault.

Should we put the buggy mess that was BF4 down to it using AMD's mantel, no as that would be silly.

As a side note AMD said they where going to "open" game works back in June 2014 but we have seen sweet FA on that front, no surprise there. Maybe that will change with there resent changes in organisation.
 
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They paid for all the ubisoft games and they aren't improving the customer experience by backing a bad dev. In fact throwing your marketing weight behind such games encourages customers(mostly their own) to believe that game will be particularly good, most of those ubisoft games are turning out to be a joke and have been for multiple years now.

If those developers are going to make crap games, get your name off them and help devs who make good games. This will give sales to better deserving games and if anything Ubisoft would see Nvidia moving away from them as a sign to do better.

There is no point getting into bed with Ubisoft, and it's no better than ignoring them if while in bed with them you do absolutely nothing about all the issues plaguing their games on release.

Nvidia is supposed to be all about graphics, so they are involved in Watchdogs and have engineers working on the project who damn well know that IQ is being turned down with many options hidden/disabled for the PC launch and Nvidia did what about it? Here, have this game that performs terribly, stutters, has SLI/xfire issues and has loads of things that can make it look better disabled.

Ubisoft need a kick in the teeth, from both Nvidia, and customers to stop throwing money at them when they are screwing up so badly. Supporting them as they do this is basically encouraging them to keep going as they are.


We can agree to disagree then. As business I feel Nvidia absolutely should work with a developer even if the developer is known to make buggy games.

For me, the blame lands much more squarely with the publisher for pushing developers to unrealistic deadline and for selling soemthign they know is not ready. Nvidia tacking on a few effects and optimizing a shader or 2 is the least of the problems. Nvidia aren't game developers and they are a 3rd party QA company, they provide support to developers for graphics. I don't think you can hold them accountable when a game is a buggy mess and they turn graphics effects off, Nvidia don't control the developer, the developer is free to do what they want.
 
Bit late to the party but loved reading WCF to see the shortcomings due to the pre-order noobs. Not only are there problems but they basically lied.


Fallout 4 is 1080p & 30fps on Xbox One and PS4. Resolution and FPS are not limited in any way on the PC.

— Bethesda Softworks (@Bethblog) June 22, 2015

Yet the game is locked via CFG to 60, Features no 21:9 support or FoV which again needs to be edited. Now if i downloaded this on day one with no experience of modding a cfg. Tell me would i have grounds to call Amazon and request a refund on my order like i did back with Empire Totalwar? I think so and best thing about this is Amazon refund without asking question aka i still have ETW on my steam lol.
 
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I wouldn't go higher than 100-110fps on this anywho, it'll bug out on things like terminals. Like Skyrim, it has issues at high FPS. Cap to something like 90 and get on with the game.
 
I'm beginning to think they don't actually have any programmers on the Fallout team.

And Beth won't pay for a new engine.

Yer I'm kinda surprised as since they owned ID software for 6 years now, who you know make engines. Hech they forced Tango Gameworks and MachineGames to use IDTech5 afterall.
 
Bit late to the party but loved reading WCF to see the shortcomings due to the pre-order noobs. Not only are there problems but they basically lied.




Yet the game is locked via CFG to 60, Features no 21:9 support or FoV which again needs to be edited. Now if i downloaded this on day one with no experience of modding a cfg. Tell me would i have grounds to call Amazon and request a refund on my order like i did back with Empire Totalwar? I think so and best thing about this is Amazon refund without asking question aka i still have ETW on my steam lol.

Yup exactly....

What I had to do manually to get the game running to an "acceptable" standard:

- adjust FOV
- add 21.9 support
- remove mouse acceleration
- add res. of my screen

And it didn't require just 1 character being changed or one line but often you had to add 2 lines and to top it of, not just once but twice.... You have to edit the .ini files in your documents AND in the install directory so it isn't as easy or quick as any other game config .ini files.

I didn't have to do anything about unlocking FPS though, mine already had a cap of 60.

Not played for more than 30 minutes so I have yet to encounter bugs but still the very fact that I can't change the most basic setting there is i.e. my res. without having to go through 2 config files is a joke....

There were other "fixes" that needed to be done too but I couldn't be assed.

EDIT:

For those interested, here is a guide with all the fixes

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=551069501
 
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Yup exactly....

What I had to do manually to get the game running to an "acceptable" standard:

- adjust FOV
- add 21.9 support
- remove mouse acceleration
- add res. of my screen

And it didn't require just 1 character being changed or one line but often you had to add 2 lines and to top it of, not just once but twice.... You have to edit the .ini files in your documents AND in the install directory so it isn't as easy or quick as any other game config .ini files.

I didn't have to do anything about unlocking FPS though, mine already had a cap of 60.

Not played for more than 30 minutes so I have yet to encounter bugs but still the very fact that I can't change the most basic setting there is i.e. my res. without having to go through 2 config files is a joke....

There were other "fixes" that needed to be done too but I couldn't be assed.

EDIT:

For those interested, here is a guide with all the fixes

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=551069501

Yup same with Metal Gear Solid there is a five step method you have to re-pack files with a tool, And yet that same game is £40 on Steam along with Fallout 4. I rarely buy big games now on release most of the AAA+ games this year i will not buy until the Christmas/Summer sales which could mean at least a 12-16 month wait.

Fallout 4 has to be run at 4K simply because there is no MSAA, So that guarantees i cannot run the game max without Gameworks until Pascal. But there is no reason at all to fret about this as there is no multiplayer and the longer i wait the more the game will improve thanks to DLC's and GOTY editions. I see no valid reason for anyone to buy the game when there is such a huge amount of games out there of similiar or better quality to tide you by.
 
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