family transportation

dilated said:
that is not a fair comment, I ask the question so that I can find out your point of view - it is called a discussion :rolleyes:
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and I say if you'd stopped and thought about that very question, you'd have answered it yourself removing the need to post it.
manufacturers know their market very well so if a product exists and you cannot see why this is so, then you need to ask yourself WHY it exists rather than state that the alternative you nominated is better in every respect.
 
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The_Dark_Side said:
and I say if you'd stopped and thought about that very question, you'd have answered it yourself removing the need to post it.
manufacturers know their market very well so if a product exists and you cannot see why this is so, then you need to ask yourself WHY it exists rather than state that the alternative you nominated is better in every respect.
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your post makes no sense, you criticise that i do not see any one elses point of view and despite me taking the time to explore your point of view and giving you chance to state why you choose this type of car you still post the hot air above - i dont care why a man in france decided to make that car, it is compeltely irelevant to myself and completly off topic.

last year i had a simlar budget and simlar criteria to the op. i stated the considered facts why i chose my car and why i am still happy with said vehicle. I decided that a car that was cheaper, lower mileage, younger better specced, better looking (imho) and better to drive (imho) than an mpv was the car for me.

A lot of people on here are petrol heads and most see the mpv as a car typically driven badly by a hormonal mother who cannot afford a chealsea tracor - late for school, never uses mirrors, never looks at the road ahead etc. At the same time - I am interested about what would attract me to this car, you dont stike me as someone who would struggle to drive a large car like mine and you dont seem to fit the sterotype driver.
 
dilated said:
your post makes no sense, you criticise that i do not see any one elses point of view and despite me taking the time to explore your point of view and giving you chance to state why you choose this type of car you still post the hot air above - i dont care why a man in france decided to make that car, it is compeltely irelevant to myself and completly off topic
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not at all.
you originally posted that you cannot see why the mini MPV would appeal over the saloon.
my point was the manufacturers know their customers better than you or i and therefore the fact the actually make, and sell by the truckload incidentally, 5 seater MPV's by definition means there must be more than a few very good reasons why they appeal to their prospective buyer.
dilated said:
last year i had a simlar budget and simlar criteria to the op. i stated the considered facts why i chose my car and why i am still happy with said vehicle. I decided that a car that was cheaper, lower mileage, younger better specced, better looking (imho) and better to drive (imho) than an mpv was the car for me.
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all fair points, but you chose the vehicle for YOU and as such it fitted YOUR requirements.you don't represent every buyers opinions/point of view and of course neither do i.
take the Smart for example, i wouldn't buy one in a month of sundays, but i couldn't say that i fail to see why anyone buys one over say, a Yaris, because although i don't agree with the owners choice i can see why he/she made it.
dilated said:
A lot of people on here are petrol heads and most see the mpv as a car typically driven badly by a hormonal mother who cannot afford a chealsea tracor - late for school, never uses mirrors, never looks at the road ahead etc. At the same time - I am interested about what would attract me to this car, you dont stike me as someone who would struggle to drive a large car like mine and you dont seem to fit the sterotype driver.
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this brings us back to my original point...namely that this place typically offers a very one sided outlook to all things motoring.
i can deal with people making different choices as that's the way of the world, infact if we were all chasing the same thing life would be very boring.
my problem is when i read someone who says they cannot understand why someone chose car A when really what they're saying is "i would never chose one of those so anyone that does is just stupid, uneducated about cars or just plain wrong".this isn't aimed at you but it is a sentiment that comes across often on these forums.

as for the last part of your post you're not wrong.
i have licenses to drive almost everything (no PCV yet, planning to add that next year) and i've driven some of the biggest, heaviest and unusual vehicles in this country.i've driven approximately 28 miles more than god, have more than a touch of motorsport experience and have broken (and in many cases been caught, fined and prosecuted for) most offences on our roads.
none of this means i'm always right, but it does give me a pretty experienced background to draw from.
 
thanks for the post The_Dark_Side - but in the long windedness you still havent educated me as to the appeals (to a petrol head like you or i) of an mpv. you misread me as im not saying 'im right' im genuinly asking what it is that made you choose this type of car?
 
dilated said:
thanks for the post The_Dark_Side - but in the long windedness you still havent educated me as to the appeals (to a petrol head like you or i) of an mpv. you misread me as im not saying 'im right' im genuinly asking what it is that made you choose this type of car?
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1. i don't own one, i merely said i can see why certain people would choose one over an estate or saloon.

2.my reasons are in my previous posts...while you're getting your breath back you can scroll through them ;)

the higher driving position.
the increased payload even though it's a shorter vehicle.
higher roof-line which gives the driver the impression the car is shorter still.
higher resale value and much quicker turnaround of sale when the time comes to shift it.

now none of these factors are important to me at all, but to many drivers they are.
 
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so after more discussion, can you really go along with these two statements you posted, or can you now see exactly what a mini MPV
can offer or appeal over a saloon or estate?
dilated said:
i really cannot see what the picasso can do than my car cannot.
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dilated said:
i really cannot understand why the mumsie-mobile would appeal over a saloon
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if a high driving position is important to you, and to some drivers it makes them feel more confident/relaxed, then neither the saloon nor the estate can offer this.
if driving a longer vehicle (and bearing in mind i know a girl that wouldn't driver her mum's Clio because it was too big) makes the driver nervous, then with a mini-MPV they can get a vehicle that meets their requirements but isn't perceived by them to be as long as a Limo.
estates generally have more cabin noise too as the dimensions allow vibrations to resonate into the cabin.
the list goes on.
 
I know its not quite the same as family transportation, but a year or so back I hired a car to drive 4 of us to the Millennium Stadium, turned out to be a zafira.

The best part about it was the high roofline, yet iirc the same floorpan as the mk4 astra so it wasn't big in that sense.

We didn't heave the 7 seats up, just the rear ones and there was loads of room, the cabin was nice and airy and it was generally pleasant to drive.

My mother has a mk4 astra which i've been in countless times - and compared to the zafira I can easily see why a family would pick the MPV
 
PMKeates said:
For all those interested:

"Winning" figures are in bold

Focus Esate Boot

890mm cargo height
1159mm width between wheel arches +10.4%
1042mm loadspace length to back of rear seats +21.9%
1669mm loadspace length to back of front seats

482L boot volume to parcel shelf and back of rear seats
1525L boot volume to roof and back of front seats

Focus C-Max Boot

921mm cargo height +3.5%
1050mm width between wheel arches
855mm loadspace length to back of rear seats
1734mm loadspace length to back of front seats +3.9%

550L boot bolume to roof and back of rear seats
1620L boot volume to roof and back of front seats +6.2%

From the figures, the overall difference is negligable, and the Estate in "normal" form (Laden to parcel shelf, 5 seat mode) is quite a bit bigger.
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have i missed something here

how does a 482L boot volume from a focus beat a 550 litre volume of the C Max
 
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I see exactly why they do it - they do so becuase they feel they need one. Most simply do not even bother to look at the alternatives. In many circles the case is simple - have kids, must buy MPV. Thinking beyond that is just not something they do.
 
[TW]Fox said:
I see exactly why they do it - they do so becuase they feel they need one. Most simply do not even bother to look at the alternatives. In many circles the case is simple - have kids, must buy MPV. Thinking beyond that is just not something they do.
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and to repeat myself, some drivers feel much more comfortable with a higher driving position.
what alternatives would you suggest to a less than confident driver that wants a lot of luggage space, a high driving position, something no longer than a regular car, affordable, economical and modern looking?

and before we start, a 5 series to a less than confident driver resembles a vehicle the size of mount Rushmore so a lot smaller plz.
 
I have yet to meet somebody who claims they bought their silly Scenic thing or whatever for the driving position, all cite the additional storage.

Which an Estate offers..
 
[TW]Fox said:
I have yet to meet somebody who claims they bought their silly Scenic thing or whatever for the driving position, all cite the additional storage.

Which an Estate offers..
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and i'm sure that's the main reason for a lot of people.
however to assume that's what attracts ALL buyers is generalising which is something that we just can't do.
so would you concede that the mini MPV is the only vehicle that fulfils all the criteria i listed?
if so then it stands to reason that those very same criteria will apply to SOME buyers and as such the mini MPV is the perfect choice of vehicle for them.
 
[TW]Fox said:
I see exactly why they do it - they do so becuase they feel they need one. Most simply do not even bother to look at the alternatives. In many circles the case is simple - have kids, must buy MPV. Thinking beyond that is just not something they do.
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honestly fox your like a broken record

you wheel the same reason for disliking MPVs every time a thread comes up in which you bash every1 that says they like them

in the same way as you bash people who dont want to buy a mondeo and bang on them like a broken record too.

you dont have kids, and untill you do you cant possibly understand the reasons for liking the extra interior space that one offers.

The boot is practically the same size on the picasso as the C5 estate. Not the Xsara estate, the C5 estate, the class above. Its actually much bigger without the parcel shelf as the car is taller. this is before any arguments about passengers as well, as this is with the seats up

the ride height is nice, its why 4x4s sell so well.

the performance is literally the same as the c5 estate. same 0-60 and top speed. So your not buying a slower car

and no doubt you will bang on about MPVs "handling" which quite frankly doesnt matter when you have a family. When you have kids, you dont worry about how much body roll there is, because your never going that fast into corners in the first place. Because with family on board, your not throwing the car into bends. When you have a family, back road racing becomes a thing of the past, because you will go nearly everywhere as a family. Yes you can go off on a backroad blitz, but you dont do it nearly as often when you have a family that you have to leave to do it.

so to summarise, the Picasso is

shorter
has a bigger load space without the parcel shelf, and a MUCH bigger load space without seats.
same economy
same performance
higher ride height
better interior space with the extra height.

the only reason to dislike the picasso over the C5 is an irrational hatrid of all things MPV.

and bearing in mind im comparing a Xsara Picasso here with a C5 , not the Xsara estate which is its most direct comparison.
 
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