family transportation

dilated · 10 Oct 2006 at 20:33

The_Dark_Side said:
sesame street is brought to you today by the word "CONTRADICTION".

err, correct me if i'm wrong here but no there is not.
if you know why someone does something then by definition you understand their logic.

sesame street - you are now stooping to new levels of stupididty and again off topic :rolleyes:

you are wrong (a pattern is forming) - you know the logic, you think the logic is so completly barking that you cannot understand how that logic allow them to arrive at such a bad decision.

another (boring) long winded post full of out of context quotes will not make your argument any less embarrasing, but feel free to waste your time if it gives you a kick.

The_Dark_Side · 11 Oct 2006 at 07:51

dilated said:
you are wrong (a pattern is forming) - you know the logic, you think the logic is so completly barking that you cannot understand how that logic allow them to arrive at such a bad decision.

that reads to me as you're contradicting yourself so, in an attempt to clarify, can you give me the reasons you think people misguidedly buy mini MPV's?

HEADRAT · 11 Oct 2006 at 09:12

I don't mind MPV's, infact the SMAX is sexy

HEADRAT

lordrobs · 11 Oct 2006 at 09:19

HEADRAT said:
I don't mind MPV's, infact the SMAX is sexy

HEADRAT

I agree with that. The C-Max isn't a bad looker either IMO.

dilated · 11 Oct 2006 at 20:33

The_Dark_Side said:
that reads to me as you're contradicting yourself so, in an attempt to clarify, can you give me the reasons you think people misguidedly buy mini MPV's?

i know a lot of fools who only hear what they want to hear.

i dont care why people buy a silly car and neither do i care why people dye their hair green or post meaningless off topic drivel.

The_Dark_Side · 11 Oct 2006 at 21:21

dilated said:
i know a lot of fools who only hear what they want to hear.

i dont care why people buy a silly car and neither do i care why people dye their hair green or post meaningless off topic drivel.

nicely dodged.

JayMax · 11 Oct 2006 at 23:34

The_Dark_Side said:
nicely dodged.

You think?
I'm still no clearer on his understanding/logic/point. Or lack of the aforementioned.

The_Dark_Side · 11 Oct 2006 at 23:45

JayMax said:
You think?
I'm still no clearer on his understanding/logic/point. Or lack of the aforementioned.

well firstly the guy doesn't understand why anyone would buy a mini MPV.
he can't see what one of them can do that a saloon/estate cannot.
now, apparently, he understands why someone would buy one yet doesn't understand their logic for doing so.....which sounds like a complete contradiction to me as it's saying the same thing...but hey ho.

i've done my best to put the opposing points of view across at length, detailing what exactly the mini MPV, and mini MPV alone, can do and that these very same characteristics/features are exactly what some potential buyers (not ALL but definitely some) are looking for in a vehicle....but i've had this pointed out to me that i've been long-winded.

so i thought i'd try a different tack, the hit and run.
one question, one sentence.
and it went unanswered.

good to see i'm not the only person that things "Dilated" is making it up as he goes along.
answers on a postcard please.

[TW]Fox · 11 Oct 2006 at 23:48

He can say WHY people do it but cannot see any LEGITIMATE reason for doing so.

For example, many people will buy a 3 door version of the Ford Focus over a 5 door becuase they 'do not want a big car'. This is WHY they do it. However, people like dilated and myself would struggle to understand given both cars are the same length.

Ok, so it isnt an MPV but it should illustrate the difference between peoples reasons being based on perception or fact..

The_Dark_Side · 11 Oct 2006 at 23:54

[TW]Fox said:
He can say WHY people do it but cannot see any LEGITIMATE reason for doing so.

For example, many people will buy a 3 door version of the Ford Focus over a 5 door becuase they 'do not want a big car'. This is WHY they do it. However, people like dilated and myself would struggle to understand given both cars are the same length.

Ok, so it isnt an MPV but it should illustrate the difference between peoples reasons being based on perception or fact..

you've just answered your own question.
the legitimate reason is their perception.
i know both cars are the same length but i also know that certain drivers would "FEEL" one was larger than the other and as such they'd choose the car they perceived to be the smaller.
therefore while i don't agree with their reasoning (and how could i as both cars are the same length anyway) i understand why they made that choice as they felt more comfortable in one car over the other.

The_Dark_Side · 11 Oct 2006 at 23:56

@Fox

are you saying that you cannot understand that the more timid drivers among us may put a lot of weight (granted mistakenly) on an issue as described above, just because it's not an issue to you?

[TW]Fox · 11 Oct 2006 at 23:56

Is this us agreeing people buy MPV's due to their own false, inaccurate and laughable perceptions of what they require from a car and which cars can offer it?

The_Dark_Side · 12 Oct 2006 at 00:02

[TW]Fox said:
Is this us agreeing people buy MPV's due to their own false, inaccurate and laughable perceptions of what they require from a car and which cars can offer it?

partly yes.
some of the characteristics i listed are ethereal ie they only exist as a perception to a certain type of motorist.
but a reason is a reason whether it's an issue that affects us or not and it's their money after all.
some of the other things are 100% factual, the higher driving position for example.to some car buyers this is a big deal and they will put a high preference on a vehicle that has one.
now it doesn't make one iota of difference to you or i and as such we would choose different vehicles, probably both large estates.

there are many things that i can completely understand, even though i don't agree with them.
can't you say the same about yourself?

[TW]Fox · 12 Oct 2006 at 00:03

The_Dark_Side said:
there are many things that i can completely understand, even though i don't agree with them.
can't you say the same about yourself?

Of course. I can, for example, completely understand why School mums buy Range Rovers. That's not to say, though, that I don't think their reasons are ridiculous

IMHO in order to properly criticise something you must first understand it..

The_Dark_Side · 12 Oct 2006 at 00:09

[TW]Fox said:
Of course. I can, for example, completely understand why School mums buy Range Rovers. That's not to say, though, that I don't think their reasons are ridiculous

then you've just stepped over from dilated's side of the fence to mine.
while you and i both think their reasons are unfounded, you just admitted you can at least understand them...something dilated openly said he cannot.

The_Dark_Side · 12 Oct 2006 at 00:25

rotters said:
hope you can help.

will your wife be driving it?
how confident is she behind the wheel?
what's her opinions on the choice of vehicle?
any input to go on?

JayMax · 12 Oct 2006 at 00:35

Does the entire car buyers market, both new and used, totally comprise of petrolhead & enthusiast males?
There are female buyers our there, and believe it or not - shock horror - but guys who don't care about cars stats also... and they don't give a hoot about most of the stuff some people on here care about so much. Flower holder in the fascia?.. oooh, thats lovely. Nice marketing campaign? Oooh, I'll have one of those. Looks funky? sign me up. Low finance? Yes please.
No offence to any women who might read this, I'm not being prejudiced, and I don't stand by the issues above. But they do exist (as a basic example), and that's why these cars/mpv's exist, because they sell to the non-enthusiast market.

dilated · 12 Oct 2006 at 20:50

The_Dark_Side said:
then you've just stepped over from dilated's side of the fence to mine.
while you and i both think their reasons are unfounded, you just admitted you can at least understand them...something dilated openly said he cannot.

I dont see why this is a problem, I havent put hours of thought into automotive marketing - does this make me unqualified to comment?

I have spared time to answer the ops question as I have been in a simlar position to him/her in the last 12 months and share the view that mpvs are 'dreadful'.

The_Dark_Side · 12 Oct 2006 at 22:43

dilated said:
I have spared time to answer the ops question as I have been in a simlar position to him/her in the last 12 months and share the view that mpvs are 'dreadful'.

and that's an opinion you're perfectly entitled to ans as such it's neither right now wrong...it's an opinion.
to be honest with you i wouldn't buy a mini-MPV either..like you i'd choose either large saloon or estate.
but that's because i consider myself to be an experienced driver and i'm not phased out by any vehicle or road situation.
however, i'm well aware that many drivers ARE affected by such things and that these factors have an impact on their choice of vehicle and for those people the mini-MPV is the car that ticks all their boxes, so to speak.

it's purely the fact that you stated you couldn't see why anyone would choose one, or that you failed to see what a mini-MPV could offer over a large saloon that prompted me to reply in the first place.if it was just a simple case of you disliking them then that's entirely your call.

deej · 13 Oct 2006 at 14:47

Mrs deej was looking at mpvs and 4x4s, but now wants an estate (luxo-barge preferred).

For us it wasn't the height of the rear seats, but how easy access to them is. Fitting the baby seat in the father-in-laws lwb Defender was not the easiest even though the height was perfect. You still had to contort yourself to get it fitted correctly. In his C5 there were no problems. So, we've gone for large rear passenger space over height.

The car will still be used when the kids aren't in it (shock, horror!) and I'd like it to handle nicely and have a bit of oomph.