Fidelity Super Resolution in 2021

z10m · 17 Jul 2021 at 13:01

Has anyone tried interlaced (aka checkerboarding) option in RE Village.? It actually is good even at 1080p resolution increasing performance and keeping the image nice and sharp. Tested on my laptop and it’s very good.
Why can’t more games have options like that.?

nvidiamd · 17 Jul 2021 at 13:58

The FPS boost is huge for UQ and it looks ok'ish while playing. I've seen some screenshots from Marvel shared on Twitter and it seems like in that game is a totally different story vs DLSS, but in this game FSR looks fine. It looks like DLSS can fix some of the bad graphics Marvel has while FSR can't and will even amplify some,especially at lower settings.
6900xt gets almost 50% more FPS on 4k FSR UQ in Necromunda. That is absolutely insane.

zx128k · 17 Jul 2021 at 15:47

DLSS 4k performance vs FSR 4k ultra quality. Note FSR is blurred and there is obviously less detail in the FSR image. Every DLSS quality mode is above FSR ultra Quality. Image quality is no contest, DLSS is just far better.

https://imgsli.com/NjE1Nzg

Take 1080p DLSS quality vs FSR ultra Quality.

https://imgsli.com/NjE1ODE

DLSS is more detailed.

Take https://www.diffchecker.com/image-diff/ or https://imgsli.com/ and each image. FSR and DLSS. Take the screenshot here. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/om4910/marvels_avengers_fsr_vs_nvidia_dlss_comparison/

Note even DLSS performance is less blurred than FSR Ultra Quality @ 4k. There is also more detail in the DLSS image. Try side-by-side. DLSS wins the IQ battle by a mile.

Side-by-side Quality mode FSR vs DLSS vs native.

At quality mode 1080p
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6erA4rVEAY99Ev?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
DLSS is better than native, FSR has the worst image quality

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6erA6BVkAAuf_M?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
Same at 1440p, DLSS looks better than native. FSR image is last.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6erLj-UUAMRM96?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
At 4k DLSS quality again is better.

DLSS’s advantages are pretty clear. Since it’s essentially a temporal upsampling algorithm, accumulating frames while also using its experience to smooth out aliasing. DLSS retains more detail than both native 1080p as well as the FSR upscaled 1080p image. FSR suffers from loss of detail, especially thin objects and lines such as the bridge cables, poles, and power poles.

The same can be seen with the second image. FSR loses a considerable amount of detail (bridge’s suspension cables and water textures) compared to native 1440p, while DLSS Quality is able to retain much more detail due to data from the previous frames. This just goes on to show how effective temporal techniques can be when implemented properly.

The differences with character face models are even more prominent. DLSS produces much sharper images, rendering the hair strands with near-perfect accuracy (once again better than native). The eye reflections are also more pronounced with DLSS, with the facial texture details also being preserved with more clarity. FSR Quality also does a decent job considering how it’s a simple spatial upsampler but suffers from loss of detail with thin objects and lines such as the hair strands.

One thing is clear. DLSS is superior to FSR in every aspect.

I wrote a quick Python script to compare DLSS and FSR in quality/ultra quality mode, respectively, in terms of their mean squared error (MSE) relative to the native image based on your screenshots, based on the area of the image just left of the player character and under the MSI afterburner stats (so they all display the same area - see this imgur link ). Here's the result:

Native - DLSS MSE: 43.53554856321839
Native - FSR MSE: 60.963549712643676

The script I used to generate the results can be found here To re run it, download the FSR, DLSS and native images as fsr.jpg, dlss.jpg and native.jpg respectively and run the script from within the same directory. If you want to compare another part of the image, change the x_start/x_end variables etc.

Result is that FSR has about 50% higher MSE compared to DLSS results, so it's a clear victory for DLSS at least for this section of this static image in this game.

ICDP · 17 Jul 2021 at 15:53

nvidiamd said:
The FPS boost is huge for UQ and it looks ok'ish while playing. I've seen some screenshots from Marvel shared on Twitter and it seems like in that game is a totally different story vs DLSS, but in this game FSR looks fine. It looks like DLSS can fix some of the bad graphics Marvel has while FSR can't and will even amplify some,especially at lower settings.
6900xt gets almost 50% more FPS on 4k FSR UQ in Necromunda. That is absolutely insane.

Yep, some games have implemented FSR quite poorly and it is really bad in Marvel Avengers. I also think it's not that great in Godawfull or The RiftBreaker unless you use 4K. Thankfully we can see from other games that it is possible for FSR to look as good DLSS. Though it is entirely predictable that the usual suspects with an agenda to push will only pick the comparisons where DLSS shines and wins "by a mile", becasue the base "Native" images use TAA which blurs and destroy details. So if FSR has better source to work with it does very well, so we need to see developers start to use AA methods that are not the vaseline coated TAA.

I hope we see more comparisons in this game at lower resolutions as well.

oguzsoso · 17 Jul 2021 at 16:36

nvm

IDCP, i can't even bring myself to argue things with you. you're clearly ouf ot touch with current game engines and their needs for TAA. keep your agenda up, surely you will fool someone of your own caliber

ICDP · 17 Jul 2021 at 16:42

oguzsoso said:
nvm

IDCP, i can't even bring myself to argue things with you. you're clearly ouf ot touch with current game engines and their needs for TAA. keep your agenda up, surely you will fool someone of your own caliber

Oh, look it's one of the self appointed experts here to tell us how TAA is absolutely essential and nothing to do with lazy programming. I mean how did games ever exist before TAA vaseline effect existed :rolleyes:

I know that developers are building their entire rendering/engine with TAA but it is a cheap rendering technique which in so many cases results in horribly blurred graphics. I also know that when you force TAA off in those games you get a lot of graphical artifacts and broken rendering. So you either have blurry graphics or graphical issues. My point is that it's a lazy way for programmers to implement AA in their game engines. There are far better ways to remove jaggies than TAA.

oguzsoso · 17 Jul 2021 at 16:45

ICDP said:
Oh, look it's one of the self appointed experts here to tell us how TAA is absolutely essential and nothing to do with lazy programming. I mean how did games ever exist before TAA vaselaine effect existed

they looked like the terminator and dota 2 which you keep gloating, bad and old.

name me a single non-TAA game that looks like last of us 2, god of war and rdr 2.

its essential, you can deny all you want. all the BIG devs will abuse it and use TAA to its final drop for the remainder of the generation. bro, I2m

you don't have the capacity to understand that a game with the scale of rdr 2 needs everything rendered half baked. the "lazy" devs you call made that game run on a solid 1080p 30 fps on 8 year old ps4 hardware. you're both delusional and out of touch if you really think there is another AA method to reconstruct half rendered assets in such complex game engines

if you think massive games like rdr 2 would be possible without TAA there to clean up DEFERRED rendered engines, you're also HUGELY mistaken. you cannot show a SINGLE forward engine game thas the FIDELITY level of RDR 2 and has the same amounts of DETAIL packed in a scene. because ITS not possible with FORWARD engines. devs needed deferred rendering and deferred rendering needs temporal aliasing to reconstruct half stuff together. go do your own research. don't talk without having an actual knowledge on how devs produce games.

ICDP · 17 Jul 2021 at 17:08

I don't care how devs produce games, just that TAA looks like crap because of all the blurring and ghosting. That's all that matters.

nvidiamd · 17 Jul 2021 at 20:32

ICDP said:
Yep, some games have implemented FSR quite poorly and it is really bad in Marvel Avengers. I also think it's not that great in Godawfull or The RiftBreaker unless you use 4K. Thankfully we can see from other games that it is possible for FSR to look as good DLSS. Though it is entirely predictable that the usual suspects with an agenda to push will only pick the comparisons where DLSS shines and wins "by a mile", becasue the base "Native" images use TAA which blurs and destroy details. So if FSR has better source to work with it does very well, so we need to see developers start to use AA methods that are not the vaseline coated TAA.

I hope we see more comparisons in this game at lower resolutions as well.

It is not the bad implementation of FSR. The game looks bad on native res and FSR is doing a fine job keeping the image as close as the native as you can get. DLSS has the advantage because it removes the bad TAA the game has.
But for those who played that c...p at native res with TAA, FSR is still a win, it is not far from native.

Grim5 · 17 Jul 2021 at 20:54

FSR removes a lot of detail at lower input resolutions, that sucks for gamers with older hardware - while DLSS improves the quality above native.

The difference in the two techniques is very clear. Even in the second example with a 50% higher resolution Native still has missing details which FSR takes and runs with producing rather poor image - DLSS improves the image beyond what Native could by filling in all the missing details

oguzsoso · 17 Jul 2021 at 21:09

Grim5 said:
FSR removes a lot of detail at lower input resolutions, that sucks for gamers with older hardware - while DLSS improves the quality above native.

The difference in the two techniques is very clear. Even in the second example with a 50% higher resolution Native still has missing details which FSR takes and runs with producing rather poor image - DLSS improves the image beyond what Native could by filling in all the missing details

dlss is amazing when it comes to rebuilding the details in the game, i experienced that first and in metro exodus ee

but of course, people were again quick to blame the game/developer/taa...

if dlss is good, then the taa is bad. game is bad.
if dlss is bad, dlss and nvidia are evil and should be burned. it is completely on dlss being bad
if fsr is good, then the game is good, developers are very strong, they are so talented, they implemented it so good
if fsr is bad, taa is evil, the game is evil, developer is evil, they implemented it wrong.

i mean this is the first time i see someone rejecting the reality of Temporal Anti Aliasing in modern games. I wonder what types of games this person play. I guess he didn't play RDR 2 at all, since he's adamant on a conquest against TAA.

I don't even love TAA myself, as a matter of fact, I don't like it. But at least I accept it as a necessity. Long are the days of MSAA, FXAA and SMAA. Those don't work anymore. Their days are over. TAA is here to stay.

nvidiamd · 17 Jul 2021 at 21:16

Grim5 said:
FSR removes a lot of detail at lower input resolutions, that sucks for gamers with older hardware - while DLSS improves the quality above native.

The difference in the two techniques is very clear. Even in the second example with a 50% higher resolution Native still has missing details which FSR takes and runs with producing rather poor image - DLSS improves the image beyond what Native could by filling in all the missing details

Well sometimes you can make the game to look as good/bad as you want. I've seen the screenshots shared on Twitter by the local Nvidia resident but we don't have a footage to confirm how those screenshots were taken. How do you know that this is DLSS quality at 1440p or FSR quality at 1440p? There is no FPS counter in there.
There are also similar screenshots circulating with Necromunda and it is obvious someone did some artistic work there on the FSR part. I understand that some people have paid a lot for their DLSS compatible cards but their games will not look better if they make FSR look worse than it does.

SkeeterUK · 17 Jul 2021 at 21:36

You know this isnt a compare thread.

Go make a new thread if u want to compare, dlss doesnt need to be discussed in this thread. STOP COMPARING.

One is free and doesnt need a expensive gpu. Other does.
Im on a 6700xt so im stuck with FSR, IF i ever need to use it which i dont thankfully quite yet.

DLSS - Good for low res well good for them, buy expensive gpu for 1080p gaming..

Jeez.

Can we keep this thread to FSR talk only? Please... If you wana compare, go make a new thread and go nuts.

Chuk_Chuk · 17 Jul 2021 at 21:38

All the people championing the virtues of DLSS (in the FSR thread for some reason) should write a letter to Jensen telling him to make DLSS open source and available for all GPUs to use. Maybe they could try and get it on the consoles as well.
Quality doesn't matter when the number of people who can use it is limited.

shankly1985 · 17 Jul 2021 at 22:02

First PS5 game gets FSR support. So this put aside the question if PS5 supports FSR it sure does.

Arcadegeddon

@Arcadegeddon
·
23h

Patch 0.1.3 for is now live! This brings
@AMDGaming
's #FSR to both #PS5 and #PC, some balance changes, new max framerate options, stability improvements, and more! Click here to get all the details: https://forum.arcadegeddon.com/index.php?/topic/101-patch-notes-013/… #RiseUpAndPlay

Added AMD FSR 1.0

PS5 - Enabled AMD FSR 1.0 + TAAU Hybrid Upscaling by default
PC - Added upscaling options including AMD FSR 1.0 and TAAU

doody · 17 Jul 2021 at 22:14

SkeeterUK said:
You know this isnt a compare thread.

Go make a new thread if u want to compare, dlss doesnt need to be discussed in this thread. STOP COMPARING.

One is free and doesnt need a expensive gpu. Other does.
Im on a 6700xt so im stuck with FSR, IF i ever need to use it which i dont thankfully quite yet.

DLSS - Good for low res well good for them, buy expensive gpu for 1080p gaming.. Jeez.

Can we keep this thread to FSR talk only? Please... If you wana compare, go make a new thread and go nuts.

There just SAD amd hater's can. wait for fsr 2.0

shankly1985 · 17 Jul 2021 at 22:20

SkeeterUK said:
You know this isnt a compare thread.

Go make a new thread if u want to compare, dlss doesnt need to be discussed in this thread. STOP COMPARING.

One is free and doesnt need a expensive gpu. Other does.
Im on a 6700xt so im stuck with FSR, IF i ever need to use it which i dont thankfully quite yet.

DLSS - Good for low res well good for them, buy expensive gpu for 1080p gaming.. Jeez.

Can we keep this thread to FSR talk only? Please... If you wana compare, go make a new thread and go nuts.

Agreed!

Keep hearing FSR isn't good at this FSR isn't good at that DLSS is gods greatest achievement but completely ignore that FSR is free and open to use on all GPUS its known that the higher the base resolution on your Monitor the better the finished quality will be.

FSR is better than DLSS 1.0 and that is a fact DLSS 2.0 as grown over the year into a much better quality that is a fact but you need a very expensive 3000 series GPU FSR you do not!!

So like above keep this to FSR discussion and haters go somewhere else!!

zx128k · 18 Jul 2021 at 00:49

oguzsoso said:
they looked like the terminator and dota 2 which you keep gloating, bad and old.

name me a single non-TAA game that looks like last of us 2, god of war and rdr 2.

its essential, you can deny all you want. all the BIG devs will abuse it and use TAA to its final drop for the remainder of the generation. bro, I2m

you don't have the capacity to understand that a game with the scale of rdr 2 needs everything rendered half baked. the "lazy" devs you call made that game run on a solid 1080p 30 fps on 8 year old ps4 hardware. you're both delusional and out of touch if you really think there is another AA method to reconstruct half rendered assets in such complex game engines

if you think massive games like rdr 2 would be possible without TAA there to clean up DEFERRED rendered engines, you're also HUGELY mistaken. you cannot show a SINGLE forward engine game thas the FIDELITY level of RDR 2 and has the same amounts of DETAIL packed in a scene. because ITS not possible with FORWARD engines. devs needed deferred rendering and deferred rendering needs temporal aliasing to reconstruct half stuff together. go do your own research. don't talk without having an actual knowledge on how devs produce games.

FSR uses a form of AMD TAA but I have read you can use whatever you want. Basically AMD's TAA is sharper because FSR blurs the image.

Can you compare the process of implementing AMD's FSR and NVIDIA's DLSS in Edge of Eternity? Which differences did you encounter?

Implementing DLSS was quite complex to integrate into Unity for a small studio like us; it required tweaking the engine and creating an external plugin to bridge Unity and DLSS. It was complicated, but in the end, it gave amazing results. FSR, on the other hand, was very easy to implement, it only took me a few hours, requiring only simple data. However, it did require the source data to be as sharp as possible since FSR is not a deep learning method and cannot reconstruct loss details. We needed to replace the built-in Unity TAA with the AMD Cauldron TAA (opensource) that we ported to Unity as it is a lot better at preserving details.

zx128k · 18 Jul 2021 at 01:03

Grim5 said:
FSR removes a lot of detail at lower input resolutions, that sucks for gamers with older hardware - while DLSS improves the quality above native.

The difference in the two techniques is very clear. Even in the second example with a 50% higher resolution Native still has missing details which FSR takes and runs with producing rather poor image - DLSS improves the image beyond what Native could by filling in all the missing details

That happens at all resolutions for FSR because it cannot reconstruct the fine details. DLSS restores the fine detail because its temporal. There is more fine detail than native in the DLSS image, again because of the temporal reconstruction. FSR is basically limited to the information in one frame and thus cannot add new detail. So when a developer sets up FSR they need to make sure to preserve as much detail as possible. Like using AMD Cauldron TAA and not TAA.

Reguardless the small fine cables are the same data from the lower internal resolution with FSR. Native does better but DLSS has multiple frames of information to reconstruct the fine detail for the cables thus it looks better than native. The bridge just makes it impossible to objectively state FSR is better and like native. It can be clearly seen DLSS is the best image quality here, beating native. This is not to state DLSS is perfect or it truely beats native. Or that a still image is not better than an moving one. Just that the scene just plays to the strength of DLSS in a way that cannot be denied.

DLSS is objectively better looking than both native and FSR. With FSR clearly last in image quality. This is needed because already people are stating FSR is as good as native. That you cant see the difference. Its on power with DLSS 2.2.11. Better than DLSS 1.x.... That DLSS is dead, long live FSR.

Rroff · 18 Jul 2021 at 01:06

SkeeterUK said:
You know this isnt a compare thread.

Ah the old one rule for pro-AMD posters, another for people who aren't...