Caporegime
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I'm waiting for Nvidia to drop the DLSS 3.0 bomb that was rumoured around a year ago, I'm *sure* they have something up their sleeve to combat this...
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Fidelity Super Resolution in 2021
- Thread starter Grim5
- Start date
Associate
That DLSS 3.0 rumour was fake. They seem to have some kind of unreleased ray tracing optimised variant but aside from that no idea what nVidia is planning on that front.
Associate
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- 26 Dec 2020
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- 156
You can do an "in depth" review of anything and It can still be a one-sided promotional material for a brand. DF has lost all respect as an independent reviewer in the eyes of many. They still do a good analysis of specific things in isolation and their way of resenting data is good as well but they are not as credible as HW or Gamers Nexus, not anymore.Difference is, digital foundry do extremely in depth videos with "evidence" to back up the claims, unlike 99% of people on this forum.
Also, wasn't it hardware unboxed or/and gamers nexus that got "warnings" from nvidia for saying something out of line or whatever, however, they also provide very good in depth comparisons showing the reasoning for why a lot of nvidia users will like and prefer dlss over native res. + TAA, but they must be "shills" too right
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Can someone please give a definitive answer on whether DLSS is better than native in some circumstances or not? Is it better than native when using TAA or just better overall? Can a clear sharp native image without AA being applied be worse than DLSS? Some evidence would be appreciated.
Personally I'd say no though people have done comparisons where DLSS quality is better than native w/ AA in some cases in static screenshots. There are areas of an image like text where sometimes DLSS does better than native but overall I notice the slight softening of the image and there are too many artefacts noticeable over a few hours of gaming with trails on certain objects, detail on things like foliage that isn't consistent if you peekaboo the scene and some stuff that is just smudgy, etc. like some distant building textures sometimes look like something from the xbox360 even with 4K resolution and the highest DLSS quality.
(This is based on more than 100 hours of playing games like CP2077 with the latest incarnation of DLSS).
(This is based on more than 100 hours of playing games like CP2077 with the latest incarnation of DLSS).
Caporegime
Good take.
Caporegime
Just started playing Days Gone again as I wanted to see what it was like in terms of performance on the 6700 XT at 4K maximum settings. I've really got back into the game and plan to sink a lot of hours into it over this weekend.
I know it uses UE4 engine so i was not massively confident, but was surprised to see it running at 45-60FPS, with it averaging in the low 50FPS range.
This was with the 6700 XT overclocked. This would be a great use case for Ultra Quality FSR and would take the FPS average up to 60 FPS ish.
Looking forward to trying it out on a mid range GPU as i think it could offer most value to the lower - mid end of the GPU market.
I know it uses UE4 engine so i was not massively confident, but was surprised to see it running at 45-60FPS, with it averaging in the low 50FPS range.
This was with the 6700 XT overclocked. This would be a great use case for Ultra Quality FSR and would take the FPS average up to 60 FPS ish.
Looking forward to trying it out on a mid range GPU as i think it could offer most value to the lower - mid end of the GPU market.
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Associate
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Ok, so better than native with AA in some cases and better for text clarity sometimes. So better AA or No AA would give better results on native however in some cases text etc. DLSS works better with no disadvantages, right?
I had a 2080ti for almost 2 years and only used DLSS for testing in CP2077. Just goes to shows my dislike for upscaling or just no use for DLSS (I had a 1080p monitor).
On a side note, how did you manage to play 100hrs of that awful game?
Associate
how can it be better than native w/aa ? literally doesnt make any sense to me at all. you are literally removing stuff to get more frames, its like comparing lossless audio to lossy how can lossless ever be better than lossy. surely it can only ever be equal to in a best case scenario.
yes its a good option to improve frames, but sayings its the same quality wise or better is just absurd.
yes its a good option to improve frames, but sayings its the same quality wise or better is just absurd.
Doesn't need to physically be better, just good enough to trick your eyes at normal viewing distance
Caporegime
I think @Rroff summed it up really well.
It is never going to be better than native, native is king. Trails would be a big no no for me, but if you can get close to native that's good enough.
I don't claim that DLSS 2+ over all produces better than native IQ, but it is far more performant than traditional rendering, while doing a better job at removing shimmer from power lines, thin edges, fencing, trees, etc.
It's all about tricking our eyes to make something look better. Same as mobile phones did for many years now - sharpening filters, boosting saturation (that dlss doesn't do - just an example), etc. Many people think that looks better, because "better" is totally subjective. But scientifically it can't and won't be better, even if AI guesses and fills in the blanks - it'll be just different, maybe sharper in some places (and more blurry in other). But in any case, far from prefect.
DLSS has been initially advertised as a new, very good and fast AA method. Then Nvidia changed it to do more than just AA. Hence it deals very well with AA and thin lines - that was the main ponit of it initially. I wish they would just offer it as AA only for the ones that do not want up-scaling part of it.
Here's a decent video on what it does for IQ and also (~5:30) how to force higher resolution mipmaps.
Try forcing higher mipmaps, If it's just the blur on distant objects that is an issue.
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Soldato
Of course it can come across as "promotional" piece if likes of DF are pointing out all the strengths of one brand and weaknesses of other brands/methods but that's not really their fault if said brand/feature is actually factually better.
Either way GN and HW have also stated the same as DF and it was GN who said dlss was "better than native" in their cyberpunk review so does that mean their piece was one-sided promotional material for nvidia?
For the people who keep questioning how dlss is better than native+AA methods such as TAA, they clearly have never used dlss themselves nor watched videos by GN, HW and DF to see why dlss is "often" a better method to a lot of games with poor AA methods (which sadly is a lot). With the current popular AA methods we have the following issues:
TAA - blurry mess in motion (considerably worse than dlss in my experience), often can produce a blurry scene too even in static screenshots, days gone is probably the best implementation of TAA to date but sadly it has awful trailing/ghosting issues, very good for removing jaggies/aliasing issues though. Not much of a performance hit with it
SMAA - one of the best for retaining sharpness/clarity, however doesn't do a great job with removing all jaggies or aliasing and shimmering issues. Depending on level, can vary from little to substantial enough performance hit
MSAA - one of the best for retaining sharpness/clarity but again doesn't do a great job of removing jaggies or aliasing and shimmering issues and you generally need 4 or even 8 times setting to get good results and as a result massive performance loss
FXAA - well this is just a Vaseline filter thrown on top and generally doesn't address the aliasing/shimmering issues
DLSS 2.0 manages to address a lot of issues such as shimmering, aliasing and jaggies whilst also improving performance considerably so it's a win win, sure, in motion it has its trailing/ghosting issues but in my experience, it is far better than TAAs motion issues.
Before people say "oh but with 4k, you don't need any AA".... yes you do, games can still have aliasing, shimmering issues even at 4k.
If FSR doesn't turn off/replace the AA, well that alone is already a big disadvantage compared to dlss.
Indeed, only people dissing DLSS and saying it can’t be better than native haven’t actually used it.
In death stranding for ex i posted multiple comparisons where even in still images it looked better ( due to resolving wires, fences, edges better ) while still looking as sharp as native. In motion it was even better while offering better perf.
no one said it’s ALWAYS better than native, there’s tradeoffs sometimes its better sometimes not while always offering better perf so its a no brainer.
This on the other hand, we’ll see. Got my doubts but its funny to see the same ‘skeptical’ people praising FSR even before any actual tests have been conducted while in the past they did the opposite with DLSS, and worse, they still do it nowadays even after the tech has proved itself several times over.
In death stranding for ex i posted multiple comparisons where even in still images it looked better ( due to resolving wires, fences, edges better ) while still looking as sharp as native. In motion it was even better while offering better perf.
no one said it’s ALWAYS better than native, there’s tradeoffs sometimes its better sometimes not while always offering better perf so its a no brainer.
This on the other hand, we’ll see. Got my doubts but its funny to see the same ‘skeptical’ people praising FSR even before any actual tests have been conducted while in the past they did the opposite with DLSS, and worse, they still do it nowadays even after the tech has proved itself several times over.
Great for you to post what they describe it as NOW. Now, look back into initial marketing materials (it's really not hard to find).