FIFA World Cup 2014 - GROUP D [Uruguay, Costa Rica, England, Italy - 14/19/20/24 June] **spoilers**

mmj_uk said:
He dropped deep because like every other striker we've played up front (Heskey, Defoe in SA 2010 etc) he doesn't get any service from the players behind him, he'd happily sit on the shoulder of the last defender like he does for Liverpool every week if it looked like we might slip a ball in behind but for 70mins yesterday we never threatened to do so. Rooney only has one World Cup goal because every tournament we play absolute rubbish.

I was proud after the Italy game at all of the praise we got from international fans for being exciting (particularly in the first half) and not playing our usual boring way, so what happens the following match is that because Rooney isn't happy on the wing (defending is clearly beneath him) we revert back to our safe formation and go back to being one of the dullest, least creative teams in the World Cup but hey... at least Rooney shone and will continue to be the face of the England team.
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Yup, Rooney on the left let the bulk of the team play what I would call properly, that is ball goes forward, people get ball, turn towards their end of the pitch and drive forwards, either running with the ball or picking a pass that lets them get forward quickly.

Rooney in the middle.... players turn to pass or run forward and Rooney is behind them, in midfield, leaving a huge hole and not occupy/moving around defenders or midfielders with his runs so other players had very few places to run in to.

Rooney was given a chance on the left, refused to play as a good attacker for the majority of the game and should have been dropped, actually should have been off at half time in the first game and not appeared in the second game at all.

Rooney in the middle attempting to be Pirlo, he's laughable.

A key point in the game I highlighted during it, he got the ball suckered the midfielder to think he was going cross field, turned to drive forwards, got ahead of their midfield with LOADS of space to run in to and people ahead to play off... he turned back, let that same midfield catch up and get back into the space, and then whacked it 40 yards to Johnson.

He had the chance to attack a back four and probably 1-2 midfielders at pace with space to run in to and 3 England players ahead of him and he actively chose to stop, turn away and give the ball to Johnson instead. As this happened the entire Uruguay midfield backed up 10 yards, and it was now 3 england attackers against 8 players instead.

It's classic Rooney, when he bothers to drive forward at pace, he made a goal. More importantly because he made that run, Sterling had someone to pass in behind, with Rooney refusing to make that run Sterling had no one to pass in behind, no one to push that Italy defence.

Rooney's problem isn't particularly that he's a bad striker, it's that he outright refuses to play as a striker... he is a rubbish creative central mid and he absolutely refuses to play like anything other than a creative central mid.

He either needs to be shown the door for England(and utd for that matter) or someone punch him in the face till he agrees to play only as a striker/wide attacker. every other part of his game is ****.
 
It has to be said Rooney ruins the flow of Englands attack when he plays, when sterling was playing centrally England looked far more dangerous in attack with him plying centrally.

Rooney was the best of a bad bunch yesterday, he actually was one of the only England players who got involved tbh.

Still would have dropped him and kept sterling where he was as he was so good in that position behind the main striker.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Absolutely impossible to say, he had what almost a dozen games for Scunthorpe and a few for Yeovil. Hardly a base to say he could wipe the floor with anyone at Newcastle let alone Internationally.
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Impossible to say for sure yeah - he went to my school albeit before my time - got to see him in action though a bit playing both games and he was pretty equally talented in each just devoted his efforts to cricket.
 
G|mp said:
Always the managers fault, who's fault was it when he played in the striker against France?

Hoddle I can't remember who was manager then!
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It was as much the managers fault as it was that Rooney shot straight at the keeper from 6 yards out and Jagielka couldn't defend a long ball flicked on.

Individual mistakes are one thing and huge tactical deficiencies caused by the managers incompetence are another.

And I look forward to the day he does retire. He's too good for England and has never been allowed to play the way he does for Liverpool.

Playing Gerrard in a 2 man midfield has always been a problem unless you've got a Mascherano alongside him. Playing him in a 2 with Henderson was plain stupid.

Look at his form for Liverpool playing deep in a 3 man midfield and find me another English midfielder that comes close to him, even at 34.
 
G|mp said:
Not at all, I just find it amusing.

I stopped following England or being concerned how they were doing years ago, it's always been United>England for me because the anti-Unitedness of the whole situation.

It was Phil Neville at one time, then Beckham more recently Rooney/Ronaldo, there is always a United player at fault for England under performing. I said it 18 months ago that Gerrard isn't good enough for international football anymore and we should have played the youngsters and bloodied them early for the Euro's in 2016. But will we see England fans round on Gerrard for yet another **** display at a Championship? Will we balls.

He should have been left back, left back in Bootle.
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I wouldn't say it is a Utd players fault that England are underperforming, the blame tfor that can be placed on the manager. However, there are Utd players that are underperforming in the team, and underperforming badly. When we look at the likes of Rooney and Welbeck, considering their counterparts in other teams, these players are crap. Rooney is crap. He isn't to blame for Englands demise, he just shouldn't have been picked (in that, we should have the resources to train people who are naturally better).
 
Meh a good manager could still have made it work with Rooney IMO it wasn't like there was a complete lack of talent in the team (Rooney does quite well when used as a blunt instrument - use him for that and just that). The problem wasn't so much any one strategy but that Roy seemed to be too stubborn or stupid to be adaptive and switch up the strategy as needed.
 
Secret_Window said:
I think we've spent far too much time on possession oriented play and trying to emulate what Spain do over recent years. But as we all know, trying to play a possession game will get you found out. Teams know how to exploit this. Last night, England at one point had between 62-69% possession, and we had very little come from it. We have totally the wrong philosophy for our type of players, which isn't the only problem, but is a big part of the problem.
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No, possession play is just fine, if you're in their half!! Where were England for all their possession? THEIR OWN BLOODY HALF!! I was screaming at the tv in frsutration when they knocked it around the back 4 time again, all the while Uruguay just letting them do that knowing sooner or later we will flounder a simple task like connecting a few ******* passes! :rolleyes: Seriously crap performance it winds me up.
 
lucarocks92 said:
It has to be said Rooney ruins the flow of Englands attack when he plays, when sterling was playing centrally England looked far more dangerous in attack with him plying centrally.

Rooney was the best of a bad bunch yesterday, he actually was one of the only England players who got involved tbh.

Still would have dropped him and kept sterling where he was as he was so good in that position behind the main striker.
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He didn't look dangerous and didn't look good behind the main striker. He created nothing. He ran at people granted but to the tune of nothing. He has potential but it certainly isn't in that role.

This is just turning into a Liverpool supporter slate Rooney, Manu supporters blame Gerrard. They were all crap! So crap Sterling running with the ball is seen as something brilliant with zero output.

Like Gimp I ceased caring about England in the main years ago. Right about when I realised the players don't care either and CL football kicked off. Players and clubs don't want to be released for freindlies to gel the team or have their players get injured on england duty. So you are basically lobbing together 23 players and hoping for the best.

All that happens on England duty is tapping up, which is why I didn't want Barkley there :D or playing. The young players look great for one tournament and then like all that have gone before them settle into the dire football and lack anything positive. I wouldn't want my players anywhere near them.

If we had sent a full squad of players with no player having more than 15 caps I'd bet my house we would have gotten better results. Also I don't know why the England job pays so much money for a part time job. I don't know why they can't just approach for example Liverpool and offer to pay half his salary for Liverpool and let him take charge for England games.
 
<Quote>This is just turning into a Liverpool supporter slate Rooney, Manu supporters blame Gerrard. They were all crap! So crap Sterling running with the ball is seen as something brilliant with zero output. </Quote>

I like Utd and don't like Liverpool. Rooney is a liability for England, slows play down way too much, I honestly think we would be better off without him in the side (unless he changes his game to be a striker). It's something that has always annoyed me with him at Utd, he seems to see himself as a creative midfielder - which he isn't!
 
We got beat by a Country with a population of just over 3 million. We have 10 million just in London. :p

Shame on the whole team, Every single one of the **** *****.
 
England were poor, Uruguay were better. English players were not good enough over the opening two games and are not good enough in general. England do over achieve though, so maybe England are slipping back in to where they ought to be.

I do not think it is fair to lay the blame at any one particular player. All the players that played made mistakes and underperformed. The management must take some of the blame, the system, the tactics, the selection.

English football needs to change, something that has been said for a very long time, in terms of educating the public on football, increasing the coaches and raising the standard of coaching at youth level, increasing the percentage of English players in the Premier League (which is linked to producing better young players due to coaching) and English players and coaches need to buck the trend of not moving abroad. The F.A. also need to be more competent and consistent and less living in fear upsetting the Premier League.
 
I think England would do better psychologically if they put in their mind that other teams are crap instead of giving them too much respect. They'd relax and put away some goals.

Then again, when they're not playing in their premiership league teams with no multi million pound foreign bought players to fall back on, it really exposes how average english players are.
 
mmj_uk said:
He dropped deep because like every other striker we've played up front (Heskey, Defoe in SA 2010 etc) he doesn't get any service from the players behind him, he'd happily sit on the shoulder of the last defender like he does for Liverpool every week if it looked like we might slip a ball in behind but for 70mins yesterday we never threatened to do so. Rooney only has one World Cup goal because every tournament we play absolute rubbish.
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You're speculating there. He may have been asked to drop deep by Roy, he may be disobeying orders, there's no way we can possibly say for fact. Your assumption that he doesn't get enough service I think is incorrect. We've got the best crosser of a ball in the EPL (arguably) playing at left back, with Johnson trying to get forward at every opportunity - our two goals and majority of chances have come from out wide. There needs to be a stronger target in the box, and I reckon the Sturridge is too diminutive a figure to lead the line.

He sits on the defender's should whilst playing for Liverpool because he's got Suarez playing up alongside him, however as a lone striker for England I don't think he's the best choice. I'm not saying he's a bad player, because he's likely the best striker we've got, but I think I'd rather someone with a bit of physical presence up top. I think I'd even prefer to play Peter Crouch!
 
One problem is unbalanced midfield. Gerrard for Liverpool usually now sits deep where he can dictate play and spread the ball to all corners of the pitch where a player can easily get on the end of it. For England, he's played further up, and there was no cover a lot of the time when England attacked. Hodgson has effectively selected 7 English attacking midfielders. Wilshere when he comes on, doesn't want to sit deep, he wants to roam, as would Barkley, Lallana, hell even Lampard. Henderson on the otherhand may not be seen as 'gifted' as them even though with the exception of Lampard and Gerrard was the most productive English CM in the Premier League, continuously works hard.

Sturridge meanwhile has been used to having a strike partnership with Suarez, and if Rooney could even play anything similar to that, they'd have a good attack. Strength of Liverpool, Everton and Manchester City (three teams which probably excelled given circumstances and expectations) was fluidity in play, England don't have that fluidity and didn't have that balance either. Baines and Johnson like to bomb forward down the wings, because it's how they play for club and it's ingrained on them. If you launch your full backs forward you need to keep another player back to prevent against counters.

Cahill personally for me is an excellent defender, least not at club level. Not sure if its just unused to playing alongside Jagielka or whether it was England's system but he didn't seem as assured.

I do wish England would play out of defence more. They either launch it straight to the opposition, or play it around defence and end up having to knock it out of play.

Thought myself they should either have gone with the diamond formation or 4-3-3, and if Rooney cannot play anywhere other than second-striker then he shouldn't play on the wings, he should be dropped.
 
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