Five-year-old boy lives as girl in youngest case of Gender Identity Disorder

hurfdurf said:
One of the dumbest reactions is "oh but the child will be bullied!"

Punish the bullies then, end homo and trans phobia, make it as unacceptable as racism.

In 30 years people will look back at most of GD and have the same opinion of the comments as how we look back at the racists who were opposed too interracial marriage.
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I'm not sure if you are questioning something I've said or if you are agreeing with it, but I don't think I said that the child should not be allowed to express themselves for any reason. In particular I agree that preventing them from expressing themselves to prevent from bullying is upside down thinking.

I certainly hope you are right when you say that in 30 years time we will look back of homophobic/transphobic abuse with the same intolerance as racism.
 
Where have I disputed if GID exists?

It's not new, I never said it was new. Try again.

It's two young to make diagnosis. That's common sense. Unless you can show me some scientific data. But you can't as mental issues don't work like that, well they may do, but we haven't Goto the point of making factual diagnosis.
 
Glaucus said:
Where have I disputed if GID exists?

It's not new, I never said it was new. Try again.

It's two young to make diagnosis. That's common sense. Unless you can show me some scientific data. But you can't as mental issues don't work like that, well they may do, but we haven't Goto the point of making factual diagnosis.
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Mental issues don't work like that?
What, you mean have the ability to form at an early age?
 
Glaucus said:
Where have I disputed if GID exists?

It's not new, I never said it was new. Try again.

It's two young to make diagnosis. That's common sense. Unless you can show me some scientific data. But you can't as mental issues don't work like that, well they may do, but we haven't Goto the point of making factual diagnosis.
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You seem to be disputing that it can exist in a child of this age. And you're seriously trying to claim "common sense" as your authority? Wtf?
 
ChrisJSY said:
Mental issues don't work like that?
What, you mean have the ability to form at an early age?
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No, that's not what I said at all is it.

Have an actual solid diagnois.
For example take blood test identify x- virus, you have that.
Or identify certain sets of genes meaning you have x-genetic disorder.

ATM we have no similar tests for mental illenesses and Untill we do. Then it's based on observations that is not appropriate at such a young age.

So yet again nothing to do with it cant form at any age.
 
I agree on that, but what else is there to do, you find patterns from previous cases of children with issues, who've matured with the issues still existing, work from there.

It's good enough they care/look at it/it's known at least.
 
ChrisJSY said:
I agree on that, but what else is there to do, you find patterns from previous cases of children with issues, who've matured with the issues still existing, work from there.

It's good enough they care/look at it/it's known at least.
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There's no need to do anything at that age. And for everyone which has had it that age and had it in adult life. How many have changed. How many have been screwed up by all the change in behaviour of their roll models and been influenced, due to such diagnosis. What the school, media and parents have done is disgrace full.
 
Glaucus said:
There's no need to do anything at that age. And for everyone which has had it that age and had it in adult life. How many have changed. How many have been screwed up by all the change in behaviour of their roll models and been influenced, due to such diagnosis. What the school, media and parents have done is disgrace full.
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If you'd actually bothered to follow the link I gave you'd have read about "Kraig" (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-07/...experimental-therapy-feminine-traits?_s=PM:US) a 5 year old boy who under the direction of a Psychologist they tried to used to discipline to stop feminine behaviours. Despite claiming the treatment a success his family say it was incredibly traumatic for him and he committed suicide at 38.

But I'm sure your "common sense" tells you that's a far better idea than accommodating the desires the child is expressing at the moment.
 
Speaking as someone that suffers from gender identity issues but couldn't explore those feelings properly when I was young due to being brought up in quite a strict household with a father that abhorred such ideas it's a hard one for me, I have never really felt strongly that I'm any particular gender, gender isn't binary, it a scale, mentally I do not see myself as a man or a women, in truth I feel like I'm both at the same time, it's very confusing, for me it actually got worse when I hit puberty, I felt like nature was forcing me to be something that felt wrong, one gender, a man, that was a very confusing time for me, it's a strange feeling existing in a world being physically a male while in your head you don't feel you are one, it makes you very aware of how social dynamics are effected by physical gender because so many people make assumptions about you based on your gender, in school, "oh, you have a willy, your playing rugby today," "err no, I prefer to play netball please", "lol, get changed now young man, rugby will put hairs on your chest" :(

I've reread the op a few times now and personally I don't see the issue as long as the parents don't force a gender on him, which they don't,

"We still put some neutral clothes in his wardrobe if he ever decides he wants to wear them."

"We leave it up to him to decide what he wants to do - if he changes his mind and wants to be a boy again then he does, but if he doesn't, he doesn't."

Remember that they also thought that it was just a passing phase just as few on here presumed but it obviously wasn't, you have a child that is wanting to cut his genitalia off, that is very serious, any sensible parent is going to have their child accessed under these circumstances rather than force their child into a gender type which could do more harm than good.

Although that being said I don't think the diagnoses at this young age should be 100% set in stone, and being that the child has not reached puberty it should be a guideline open diagnoses, although I still see nothing wrong under these circumstances to let the child to choose to live as a girl, I'm no professional but with the limited information we have based on this case I'd conclude that it would be detrimental to the child's mental health by forcing the child to live as a boy.
 
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bam0 said:
From what level of experience/skill do you make the claim that it's "simply far too young to make such diagnosis"? Or is this just "common sense"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder_in_children

Go and read that again, GID in Children was in the DSM-3 in 1980, it's not massively new. The only argument there seems to be whether it can be "treated" or not, and yet you're disputing whether it actually exists.

I'll highlight some other important parts for you;

"F64.2 Gender identity disorder of childhood: A disorder, usually first manifest during early childhood (and always well before puberty), characterized by a persistent and intense distress about assigned sex, together with a desire to be (or insistence that one is) of the other sex. There is a persistent preoccupation with the dress and activities of the opposite sex and repudiation of the individual's own sex. The diagnosis requires a profound disturbance of the normal gender identity; mere tomboyishness in girls or girlish behavior in boys is not sufficient. Gender identity disorders in individuals who have reached or are entering puberty should not be classified here but in F66.-."
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And here lies a problem with wiki quoting it gives you very little epistemology when dealing something like this. Maybe before quoting that as verbatim you should be aware of how this whole subject was shaped by the work of Money. Then you could conclude from the following falsification that the definitions and the practices that resulted from Money are not as applicable as they appear despite having some very heavyweight names behind them. Then you could look at how those names have disappeared into obscurity and been replaced by people who are doing exactly as I describe: waiting and also that the whole definition and its implementation is extremely open to dispute. Just saying ...
 
Glaucus said:
What has that got to do with anything I said?
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You're saying how what the school/health professionals/family could permanently damage him. I'm pointing out how trying to force a gender role on him could do the same. You really didn't get that?
 
lowrider007 said:
Although that being said I don't think the diagnoses at this young age should be 100% set in stone, and being that the child has not reached puberty it should be a guideline open diagnoses, although I still see nothing wrong under these circumstances to let the child to choose to live as a girl, I'm no processional but with the limited information we have based on this case I'd conclude that it would be detrimental to the child's mental health by forcing the child to live as a boy.
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Thank you for being so brave as to post that you get a lot of respect from me for that.

This is exactly what I was on about - all the evidence shows this is the most commonly held view when quantitative studies are being applied. Do not resist, let the person explore their own destiny and keep them safe whilst they do so and most of all do not set them down an alternative path that also may not be for them.
 
bam0 said:
You're saying how what the school/health professionals/family could permanently damage him. I'm pointing out how trying to force a gender role on him could do the same. You really didn't get that?
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That's exactly what school and people are doing they made a depiction and are influencing..
I certainly haven't said smack the child senseless if he plays with feminine toys. Like that link you posted.

See you want it to be one or the other. It's neither your jumping to conclusions.

There's no need for a diagnosis at this age, I maintain you can't possibly make a diagnois is at this age.
And there's a huge difference between normal parenting and a study that including smacking as a routine behaviours controll as well as other much outdated 70s thinking.
 
I saw a TV program and as I remember about 95% of kids with this disorder grow out of it as they get older, however, a high percentage are gay/lesbian adults.

I don't really see what the problem is with the kid wanting to be a girl, he might grow out of it, he may not.
 
Glaucus said:
That's exactly what school and people are doing they made a depiction and are influencing..
I certainly haven't said smack the child senseless if he plays with feminine toys. Like that link you posted.

See you want it to be one or the other. It's neither your jumping to conclusions.

There's no need for a diagnosis at this age, I maintain you can't possibly make a diagnois is at this age.
And there's a huge difference between normal parenting and a study that including smacking as a routine behaviours controll as well as other much outdated 70s thinking.
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I want it to be one or the other what? The whole point of what I'm saying and what the school/parents are doing is not pushing one particular gender identity on the child, even though they aren't comfortable with the one dictated by their sex.
 
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