Me too, a whole group of ***** used to do it just to spark a response from teachers they didn't like and then report them.
For or against corporal punishment in schools ?
- Thread starter mrbios
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Me too, a whole group of ***** used to do it just to spark a response from teachers they didn't like and then report them.
I was just using the same reasoning that you used, and the state uses. None what so ever - "This might happen, so lets not do this, not even that, stop doing that, put that down".
Because were all human, if other countries can and have operated in the past 100 years without dying out from hitting their children I think this snooty backwards country can manage it.
Constant fear of pain? This isn't a drunk’s abusive home, step out of line and you will be dealt with. Whether its talking when your not supposed to being abusive to another pupil or teacher.
Me too, a whole group of ***** used to do it just to spark a response from teachers they didn't like and then report them.
I think people like that should be locked up for 6months. It's no different to crying rape.
:/ I'd have just walked out of the job. The sad thing is if females in school actually try to grope males it isn't taken as sexual harrassment.
Spot on.
[DW]Muffin;10843372 said:
I'd give up arguing if I were you, a lot of people these days can't deal with the idea of corporal punishment. They're conditioned to think it's bad, abusive, exploitative even. No-one in my school ever thought it was these things, it's only when the idea of 'human rights' came along that everything was screwed up.
Guess what, if you didn't misbehave it didn't happen to you. Simple as that.
Maybe- but the bootcamp environment should not cross over with the academic environment. I experienced similar cases like the one you mentioned, didn't go to court or anything, but accusations were made against teachers freqeuntly. You couldn't administer corporal punishment in a secondary. In my personal experience some of the kids who caused the most trouble would have not thought twice about being violent towards a teacher or anyone who was violent in the slightest towards them.
nail. head.
theres the answer, definitely for this.
i cant help but think kids today have so much confidence in doing what they want due to lack of discipline, that if the education system starting cracking down on this, members of staff could be attacked in revenge though.
Corporal Punishment would not work. The atmosphere that existed back in those days has long since gone and it will not be coming back any time soon. In practice it could never be reintroduced.
To solve unruly kids you have to look at where they have come back from, what their home life is like, what aspirations / natural talents do they have?
I have posted on this before but I still think the point is very valid.
Under the current school policies there is a massive drive towards the world of academia (blairs 50% of kids going to university) and very little towards practical skills. What we seem to have forgotten is that some people are not suited to an academic life, but they could make an excellent bricky/mechanic etc. Kids need to feel that they can achieve something and have self worth. Now unfortunately instead of changing their policies and providing the money for schools and companies to provide trade skills the government attempted to give them self worth by preventing the little sods being told the truth and being given a proper bollicking when they desperately needed it.
For those that work with ex cons and young offenders they will have seen that for a lot of them giving them a chance, giving them the training and allowing them to achieve something on their own can turn a lot of them around.
Schools need to provide education for those who are natually suited to practical skills and not just to those who are naturally academic.
Two reasons unfortunately why this will not work in the near future. 1) Parents need to get involved in their kids lives and not just attempt to fob them off with computers/dvds/abuse etc. 2) We have pretty much shipped a significant part of our primary and secondary industries to China. As a result there are very few practical jobs available.
Short term, harsh punishment will only work on a fraction of the overall problem population. You need long term plans that actually mean something in the real world.
To solve unruly kids you have to look at where they have come back from, what their home life is like, what aspirations / natural talents do they have?
I have posted on this before but I still think the point is very valid.
Under the current school policies there is a massive drive towards the world of academia (blairs 50% of kids going to university) and very little towards practical skills. What we seem to have forgotten is that some people are not suited to an academic life, but they could make an excellent bricky/mechanic etc. Kids need to feel that they can achieve something and have self worth. Now unfortunately instead of changing their policies and providing the money for schools and companies to provide trade skills the government attempted to give them self worth by preventing the little sods being told the truth and being given a proper bollicking when they desperately needed it.
For those that work with ex cons and young offenders they will have seen that for a lot of them giving them a chance, giving them the training and allowing them to achieve something on their own can turn a lot of them around.
Schools need to provide education for those who are natually suited to practical skills and not just to those who are naturally academic.
Two reasons unfortunately why this will not work in the near future. 1) Parents need to get involved in their kids lives and not just attempt to fob them off with computers/dvds/abuse etc. 2) We have pretty much shipped a significant part of our primary and secondary industries to China. As a result there are very few practical jobs available.
Short term, harsh punishment will only work on a fraction of the overall problem population. You need long term plans that actually mean something in the real world.
[DW]Muffin;10843372 said:
That was not the reasoning that I used- I stated that the risk of abuse is increased, not that it was a given.
Indeed we are all human, and human behaviour is learnt is it not? So a country's culture will have an effect on peoples behaviour and attitudes. One size doesn't fit all, everyone should have realised that by now.
What would you describe the 'fear of god' (your words) as- pertaining to the idea of corporal punishment?
I agree. Nasty people should be removed from the school and from the parents for x-number of months and be sent to bootcamp. It might even kick the parents into acting responsibly. which is the main cause of the problem.
I've told this before, But a headmaster was stoned by pupils, so the police where called. Parents came in complaining and punched the headmaster
got no hope changing kids attitudes with parents like that.
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human rights are good if you earn those rights but if your taking those rights away like i.e a disruptive student taking a classes rights to a good education away you then lose those rights urself.
or man A kills man B .man A has taken man B's rights from him so should lose his own rights. hopefully you'll understand what i'm getting at.
or man A kills man B .man A has taken man B's rights from him so should lose his own rights. hopefully you'll understand what i'm getting at.
Sorry, this is all crap.
"it's all about understanding the kids...what their problems, needs and drives are.... you have to examine the source".
Every kid - no matter who they are - understands being hit. They understand that if they are bad, they will get hit. End of story. This rubbish 90s-ism you cite is the exact reason discipline is so lax in the UK.
The government tries to use one size fits all programs though. Just look at the SC thread you started, Bar - the ex-cons I taught were willing to learn but the lack of support was holding them back. At the moment childcare support is a complete joke and the government force you to use registered providers that cost a fortune. This is the opposite of freedom and free market.
So then they understand that if someones out of line with them they also respond with violence? Nice system. I think you just hate children.
Have to say I'm for it, schools/society is/are getting really quite shocking now days. I'm 'only' 20, but even I remember when my town was a much nicer place, with very few little oiks, now though the place is full of them, so is the school. It used to just be a couple of naughty kids per year, now though (well, when I left 6th form...so 2005) it's most of them that are harassing (not just being naughty kids) other pupils and teachers.
InvG
I can totally relate to this,
Im only 21 and its strange seeing how the 'younger generation'' behave. Its really not a case of' people saying to me "your older now and see things different, everyone was the same when they were kids" either. Im sure everyone had the 'bad ones' at their school, but, no major harm ever came and you could still have a decent education. Now, the majority of the people younger then me are almost like a different breed, there not just rebellious, just pure evil! Trying to teach (or being in a class with them) must be a nightmare!
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they already use violence when ppl get out of line with them hence the reason you can get stabbed for refusing to buy cigs for them. at least cp in school will teach then respect for each other and the ppl around them.
Bar i definately agree with you on the long term plans, its a simple case of some people are suited to practical skills while others should be heading to uni, neither side is less valued, just different.
However I am for corporal punishment, or at least something which will put fear into kids of their teachers. My school was pretty good due to the system which was in place in NI, basically most kids were there to learn, there'd be some stupid behaviour but nothing of the likes you see or hear about in secondary/high schools.
In NI there was the 11+ which basically was an exam you sat and based on the results you could apply for schools that may or may not accept you. My school took A's only but some B's during the year or from those that lived nearby. Not the best solution as those who didnt pay attention early enough are stuck in a hell hole but better than what it will be.
As a result of 'discrimination' this is going to be scrapped or perhaps even been already. People will be allowed in schools based purely on where they live, which in the case of my school is the beginning of hell.
I previously wanted to be a teacher but after this there is NO way I would do it, there's no control over the kids and with the changes coming to NI it'll be a shambles. I hope they decide to turn private as it's one of the most successful schools in Northern Ireland, was the cheapest of the top tier too at £10 a term.
However I am for corporal punishment, or at least something which will put fear into kids of their teachers. My school was pretty good due to the system which was in place in NI, basically most kids were there to learn, there'd be some stupid behaviour but nothing of the likes you see or hear about in secondary/high schools.
In NI there was the 11+ which basically was an exam you sat and based on the results you could apply for schools that may or may not accept you. My school took A's only but some B's during the year or from those that lived nearby. Not the best solution as those who didnt pay attention early enough are stuck in a hell hole but better than what it will be.
As a result of 'discrimination' this is going to be scrapped or perhaps even been already. People will be allowed in schools based purely on where they live, which in the case of my school is the beginning of hell.
I previously wanted to be a teacher but after this there is NO way I would do it, there's no control over the kids and with the changes coming to NI it'll be a shambles. I hope they decide to turn private as it's one of the most successful schools in Northern Ireland, was the cheapest of the top tier too at £10 a term.
That's exactly the problem - people these days define it as violence.
The definition of violence is "physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing". If you smack a kid the purpose is purely remedial. It's done quickly and sharply to make a point.
Very much like a gang leader and members of his gang. Very much like a pimp and his prostitutes.
I am not for namby pamby attitudes. I was all for corporal punishment when I was younger but age has mellowed me somewhat. It has also made me a lot more realistic.
Society and its me me me attitude is responsible for a hell of a lot of problems in this country and that stretches across all demographics.
Violence against kids is something they have grown up with and in a lot of cases they get it at home. If it does not work when their parents hit them, why the hell would it work in schools?