Frame Rating: AMD Improves CrossFire with Prototype Driver

[Rroff]

Its really only an issue which affects a small group of games. It can also be fixed (in 99% of cases) by ticking one box in RadeonPro.

Have to disagree, while some games its can be massive reduced with radeonpro and in a lot of games it can be eliminated by vsync or framerate capping in a lot of games (without artificial framerate caps) you still get quite lumpy rendering compared to what you should be getting (how noticeable it is probably similiar to the whole 60Hz V 120Hz thing) and vsync/artificial framerate capping type fixes are far from a solution for everyone.

While for people who are happy on 60Hz panels (which at a guess from the comments you've made on this and other topics would seem to include yourself) probably can get an acceptable solution from the tools available, I find it unlikely that people who demand a 120Hz panel would also be happy with the current scenario even with the radeonpro tweaks.

 

[LtMatt]

Have to disagree, while some games its can be massive reduced with radeonpro and in a lot of games it can be eliminated by vsync or framerate capping in a lot of games (without artificial framerate caps) you still get quite lumpy rendering compared to what you should be getting (how noticeable it is probably similiar to the whole 60Hz V 120Hz thing) and vsync/artificial framerate capping type fixes are far from a solution for everyone.

While for people who are happy on 60Hz panels (which at a guess from the comments you've made on this and other topics would seem to include yourself) probably can get an acceptable solution from the tools available, I find it unlikely that people who demand a 120Hz panel would also be happy with the current scenario even with the radeonpro tweaks.

You don't Roff, even just by changing the Flip Que Size to 1 eliminates any form of micro stutter in the majority of games (not all, but most). Now ive got crossfire i can see this myself. I don't have to use vsync or a fps cap to get perfectly smooth rendering. This was just a tip i used to give people before i tried crossfire myself on the Tahiti range of cards. If you tried it yourself you would see.

 

[Rusty0611]

The point is, artificially capping FPS and using vsync is a cack solution to the problem which ever way you spin. It also isn't fixing the problem; it's masking it. There is a subtle difference.

 

[LtMatt]

The point is, artificially capping FPS and using vsync is a cack solution to the problem which ever way you spin. It also isn't fixing the problem; it's masking it. There is a subtle difference.

Yes well its lucky that in all the games i own using vsync or capping fps is not required to get 100% smooth gameplay. Most don't even need the flip queue size changed. The only game i know that requires a fps limit to get smooth, or reasonably smooth is farcry 3 and we all know how that runs on both sides. Its important tell Roff this as he's of the impression that the only way to get smooth performance is using vsync or an fps limiter and that's just not the case at all.

 

[Rroff]

Reducing the render ahead limit does reduce the issue with runt frames somewhat and make for slightly more consistant overall rendering but crossfire currently is quite noticeably lumpy for a good number of titles even with those tweaks unless you take measures that include some form of frame rate capping.

I get a strong feeling your just not sensitive to it, as someone who can't do without a 120Hz panel for gaming its painfully apparent.


EDIT: Also as per another thread recently don't get into the mindset that all I have experience of is the rig in my sig, as I had to show in that thread I have a lot more hardware and access to more hardware than just 1-2 PCs.

 

[tommybhoy]

I get a strong feeling your just not sensitive to it, as someone who can't do without a 120Hz panel for gaming its painfully apparent.

I'm on 120Hz and don't get what's reported in most of the reports, maybe I'm not sensitive you may say, but show me where SLi is 100% working 'smooth' in every title.

Some work better/fail miserably at times on one vendor and vice versa- personal experience of using enough SLI/CrossFire set ups to differentiate the merits of individual game support.

 

[LtMatt]

Reducing the render ahead limit does reduce the issue with runt frames somewhat and make for slightly more consistant overall rendering but crossfire currently is quite noticeably lumpy for a good number of titles even with those tweaks unless you take measures that include some form of frame rate capping.

I get a strong feeling your just not sensitive to it, as someone who can't do without a 120Hz panel for gaming its painfully apparent.


EDIT: Also as per another thread recently don't get into the mindset that all I have experience of is the rig in my sig, as I had to show in that thread I have a lot more hardware and access to more hardware than just 1-2 PCs.

I'm not talking about runt frames, i have no way to detect that. I'm talking about perfectly smooth crossfire gaming, which is what im experiencing. I know microstutter and am sensitive to how it feels but im sorry Roff its just not present in the majority of games i tried. Battlefield 3, Crysis 3, Sleeping Dogs, Tomb Raider, Dirt Showdown, Hitman, Bioshock the list goes on. Farcry 3 is the only game which is causing me major problems on that front.

I'm on 120Hz and don't get what's reported in most of the reports, maybe I'm not sensitive you may say, but show me where SLi is 100% working 'smooth' in every title.

Some work better/fail miserably at times on one vendor and vice versa- personal experience of using enough SLI/CrossFire set ups to differentiate the merits of individual game support.

I think you're wasting your time with him. No matter how many people tell him he won't listen.

 

[James J]

SLI isn't smooth in all titles. I experienced some weird negative scaling in a few titles such as BF3 with newer titles. For the most part though, was pretty damn smooth in everything else. No multi GPU setup is perfect though, nor should they be made out to be either.

 

[LtMatt]

SLI isn't smooth in all titles. I experienced some weird negative scaling in a few titles such as BF3 with newer titles. For the most part though, was pretty damn smooth in everything else. No multi GPU setup is perfect though, nor should they be made out to be either.

No i don't think anyone is doing that, crossfire is far from perfect. But to be honest, it works pretty damn well.

 

[Rroff]

I'm on 120Hz and don't get what's reported in most of the reports, maybe I'm not sensitive you may say, but show me where SLi is 100% working 'smooth' in every title.

Some work better/fail miserably at times on one vendor and vice versa- personal experience of using enough SLI/CrossFire set ups to differentiate the merits of individual game support.

Its not really about SLI, but SLI doesn't work 100% smooth in every title, but if you sit down with roughly similiar specs i.e. GTX470 SLI v 6950 CF with 120Hz monitors and cap at 120fps or no framerate cap theres a very noticeable difference in how smooth the rendering is between them.

I'm suprised people can't notice it side by side just turning CF on and off though - quite a lot of popular titles where its quite readily apparent.

That said I am an old school quake 1-3 competitive (CTF and duelling) player and even the smallest of hitches or inconsistencies, even at 125fps let alone lower framerates, is noticeable to me.

 

[tommybhoy]

You are not the only person on the forum that has access to different hardware you know.

When you are of the opinion that Nvidias superior all round driver fallacy is still intact in regards despite another gpu killing driver and blatant driver issues regarding stutter in general with the 6 series, nothing is going to change your reasoning I imagine.

Both Nvidia/AMD could/should do a lot more in general instead of having driver failings of some kind(some catastrophic to the point of destruction), for the monies charged, we as customers should have far better support.

 

[LtMatt]

You are not the only person on the forum that has access to different hardware you know.

When you are of the opinion that Nvidias superior all round driver fallacy is still intact in regards despite another gpu killing driver and blatant driver issues regarding stutter in general with the 6 series, nothing is going to change your reasoning I imagine.

You can lead a horse to water tommy, but you can't make it drink. Roff looks thirsty, but what can you do?

 

[Rusty0611]

You can lead a horse to water tommy, but you can't make it drink. Roff looks thirsty, but what can you do?

Pack it up mate. He's raising a valid point, one which AMD themselves have acknowledged. Be grateful that you don't suffer from it (as I am).

 

[tommybhoy]

I think I would get flung out for good if I used a picture that springs to mind mate-mask and hoses.

 

[Rroff]

You are not the only person on the forum that has access to different hardware you know.

Well aware of that and theres other people who have the same opinion as me and reviews that back it up with the relevant data.

When you are of the opinion that Nvidias superior all round driver fallacy is still intact in regards despite another gpu killing driver and blatant driver issues regarding stutter in general with the 6 series, nothing is going to change your reasoning I imagine.

Both Nvidia/AMD could/should do a lot more in general instead of having driver failings of some kind(some catastrophic to the point of destruction), for the monies charged, we as customers should have far better support.

My opinion was along the lines of:

"Not really, its likely to severely damage their reputation going forward depending on how they handle it"

hardly of the opinion their reputation is still intact, I also addressed the 600 series issues multiple times in another recent thread.

If you think my claims regarding AMD and crossfire is twisted based on some nVidia V AMD agenda you'd be dead wrong. (As in I guess you missed all the times recently when people have brought the subject up as a concern when potentially buying into crossfire I've mentioned that its something AMD are taking seriously with drivers that fix it coming out soon).

 

[Final8y]

Haha me to, as a rule these type of jokes are only acceptable when aimed at AMD products or users .

Considering just how bad those 320.18 drivers are, AMD fanboys have shown a lot of restraint, because you know if AMD were killing cards with drivers the Nvidia fanboys would jumping all over it...

That's because AMD users buy AMD because of Price and Value and not because of an image of superiority.

 

[gpuerrilla]

That said I am an old school quake 1-3 competitive (CTF and duelling) player and even the smallest of hitches or inconsistencies, even at 125fps let alone lower framerates, is noticeable to me.

Give it a rest pal! As mentioned by others your not the only one with experience of gaming titles or hardware.

I thought I had great vision berating my wife's terrible eyesight for years claiming 20:20. I went for a free eye test recently (as I never had an eye test - ever) and was told I needed glasses to legally drive!

 

[gpuerrilla]

That because AMD users buy AMD because of Price and Value and not because of an image of superiority.

+1. My last nvidia product was a 8800GT (not counting borrowing a mates gtx460 for testing) and for this very statement I will always base my judgment on more bank for the buck.

 

[Rroff]

Give it a rest pal! As mentioned by others your not the only one with experience of gaming titles or hardware.

I thought I had great vision berating my wife's terrible eyesight for years claiming 20:20. I went for a free eye test recently (as I never had an eye test - ever) and was told I needed glasses to legally drive!

I was investigating this stuff years and years back before anyone was even talking about frametimes ( see a screenshot from the program I created to visualise the results http://aten-hosted.com/images/viz1.jpg this program let me compare the "real" framerate side by side with the benchmark frame output or the resulting frame output from 2 different systems side by side including hardware captured frametimes if you have the hardware ) when the whole FCAT stuff broke I was having to provide information and/or correct people on some of the basic concepts - including some people who are now accusing me above of not knowing what I'm talking about.

Despite what some people may think there is no AMD v nVidia twist to what I'm saying and while I might not have a great deal of love for AMD, tho my main gripe with them comes from software/developer support - which is something they've been making big strides to improve lately, I'm not just going to make up a whole non-existant issue or embelish the problem at a level that it doesn't exist at just to attack them out of spite.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Do you not think your maybe in the small percentage of people who not only notice these minor imperfections, but actually invest lots of time pointing fingers?

Despite evidence of people being content with their setup, and highlighting your 'twist' is hardly from a neutral angle then your disclosed lack of love for AMD is quite pertinent to a thread about AMD drivers...

I am not doubting your knowledge or background lets call it, more questioning the accurate observation of even with some positive weight to someones input you are basically stubborn on the matter.