Poll: French Grand Prix 2021, Paul Ricard - Race 7/23

[Mr Jack]

I suppose the other way of looking at it is how many champions have been forgotten or will be forgotten? How many could name the year Denny Hulme was champion unless they looked it up (or played Grand Prix Legends)? What about Phil Hill? Damon Hill or Nico Rosberg might only be remembered as sons of champions in another 50+ years rather than for their characters or on-track accomplishments.

I guess there's a distinction to be made between mere champions and true greats: Nico, Keke, the Hills, etc. are not going to make many people's lists of greatest F1 drivers ever. Moss, on the other hand, is going to make a lot of such lists despite never winning. I guess there's always a dilution effect as well, Moss might not be remembered as well if he'd not been one of the greats in the early days of the sport. Nigel and Damon were household names in my youth, but they're already fading from memory.

Seeing how another nationality views these guys is also interesting: Nico is a much bigger star here than in the UK, and the Schumacher name is something else here: Formula 3 commentary here basically gives you blow by blow coverage of David Schumacher racing some other dudes.

You're not going to tell me that they're all forgotten

To be honest, I'd more forgotten that they didn't win the WDC.

 

[englishpremier]

T


Sir Stirling Moss didn't fair too badly in people's memory.

Who the hell is old enough to remember Stirling Moss racing?

 

[GR63]

Seeing how another nationality views these guys is also interesting: Nico is a much bigger star here than in the UK, and the Schumacher name is something else here: Formula 3 commentary here basically gives you blow by blow coverage of David Schumacher racing some other dudes.

I dont think David Schumacher makes much news.. especially since he only moves in one direction (backwards).... Wonder how long before Ralf realizes he's funding someone lacking in talent?

 

[this_is_gav]

Who the hell is old enough to remember Stirling Moss racing?

That's not what we've been debating though. I never saw Cruyff play, but I know who he is and what his legacy is.

 

[englishpremier]

I dont think David Schumacher makes much news.. especially since he only moves in one direction (backwards).... Wonder how long before Ralf realizes he's funding someone lacking in talent?

Ralf himself lacked talent (comparatively speaking) so he might not realise it all.

 

[Mr Jack]

Ralf himself lacked talent (comparatively speaking) so he might not realise it all.

Ignore the fact he was Michael's brother, and Ralf was one of the better drivers of his era. After a somewhat wild start, he scored a solid number of wins and podiums. Not WDC material; but definitely top half of the grid.

 

[this_is_gav]

As Mr Jack said, Ralf was alright. Pretty highly rated himself pre-F1 and in his early years. Probably not champion material, but of the ilk were he might have lucked into a title challenge if he had a top car (eg a Brawn) and a teammate having a poor season - similar to Coulthard in that regard. He was pretty much level with Montoya over their early Williams years, and it was only injuries which stopped them being equally matched in their later years together.

It can't have been easy being the brother of one of the F1's true greats when he's the big rival.

 

[SoliD]

Thing that moss has is that he won so much other stuff in a time when top drivers were masters of many disciplines, whilst peterson, villeneuve died at or on their way to their peak so are remembered as being great but not having the opportunity to win. Max is in this latter group, but as time goes on if he doesn't win a championship he obviously wouldn't be remembered.

 

[GR63]

As Mr Jack said, Ralf was alright. Pretty highly rated himself pre-F1 and in his early years. Probably not champion material, but of the ilk were he might have lucked into a title challenge if he had a top car (eg a Brawn) and a teammate having a poor season - similar to Coulthard in that regard. He was pretty much level with Montoya over their early Williams years, and it was only injuries which stopped them being equally matched in their later years together.

Is that a dig at Jenson Button's worthiness to be WDC?

 

[this_is_gav]

Is that a dig at Jenson Button's worthiness to be WDC?

Definitely not! I think Button showed in his McLaren years that he was certainly a worthy champion.

I just meant that Ralf probably wasn't able to command the best team, but if a Brawn-like situation for him arrived (the best car sprung out of nowhere) then he probably had the ability to have a good go at the title.

 

[GR63]

Definitely not! I think Button showed in his McLaren years that he was certainly a worthy champion.

I just meant that Ralf probably wasn't able to command the best team, but if a Brawn-like situation for him arrived (the best car sprung out of nowhere) then he probably had the ability to have a good go at the title.

Cool, well we are in agreement there then

 

[Feek]

I always thought Alesi should have been world champion during his career. He had the talent, it just didn't seem to swing his way.