He was only in F2 for one year (like George) cos he was so good.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Leclerc#Complete_FIA_Formula_2_Championship_results (the Reverse grid race at Silverstone he did get up to 5th)
Poll: French Grand Prix 2021, Paul Ricard - Race 7/23
- Thread starter Shimmy
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He was only in F2 for one year (like George) cos he was so good.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Leclerc#Complete_FIA_Formula_2_Championship_results (the Reverse grid race at Silverstone he did get up to 5th)
Soldato
It's almost like a 23 year old F1 driver might be completely improved from when they were a 17 year old driver which is what you are referring to. Max was a raw talent at 17 and boy has he improved massively over the years. He's in the top two drivers on the grid right now, very difficult to choose between him and Lewis. Both of them deserve every bit of praise for their ability. two exceptional drivers anyone complaining about that does not understand F1.
Associate
Knew I was hazey on the details, but I got the jist! In fairness, I spent most of the weekend intoxicated each time I've been
Max is excellent.. but exceptional? LeClerc, Russell much more dominant in F2 and F3, Norris also... I would not say Max has faced any exceptional team mates like Lewis has (Sainz aside)... Lewis has had Rosberg, Button and Alonso... 3 WDCs (yes he has had lesser team mates too)
Caporegime
Yes, he has. But you talked about "the last few years" and how he's "destroyed his team mates year after year"; neither are true. Really apart from this years, and last, Max has seemed like a driver with raw talent rather than anything approaching a rounded driver. To be fair, his development was rushed and that probably contributed to his ropey opening years but he certainly failed to achieve anything like the impact that Hamilton and, I would say, Leclerc did in their first few seasons.
I totally agree Max is one of the top two drivers on the grid right now; but there's a massive gulf between that impression and "being one of the best ever". If Max is to go down in history as one of the greats - like Lewis unquestionably will - he needs to deliver over a career. It doesn't make sense to talk about a very exciting young driver like Max as if they're storied great of the sport. Yet.
lol and the Max bias? Are you mental? By what measure can you possibly judge a formula 1 driver if not by championships won? Absolutely lols... Max has won 0 championships and Lewis has won 7. End of story. You can talk about Max's potential until the cows come home but beyond his performance over the last couple of years he barely deserves mentioning in the same breath as Lewis, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel etc. Because the difference is they have all won championships. I've never denied Max is a great driver right now, but that's where the comparison ends, imo.
Exactly.
People are so desperate to see Lewis fail they talk up any opposition. Like him or not, Lewis is a helluva talent and a MACHINE. This is all very much like people complaining about The Michael and Lewis and him are very different in HOW they go about winning
Soldato
Yeah.... you still don't get it. It's like saying Kane can't be a great player because he's not won anything with Spurs.
Caporegime
Max right now is like Kimi was back in '03. Back then you'd look at Kimi coming within a gnat's whisker of beating the greatest champion of his age over a season with the third best car on the grid, and talk about he was set to be one of the greatest of all time. He didn't. Like so many other really promising young drivers, he turned out to be merely good. That Max is good is clear; whether he has what it takes to be a true great remains to be seen. Anything else is just froth and wishful thinking, at best.
Don
Eh? So if he comes 2nd in the championship for the next 10 years but loses out due to having bad luck/bad car etc he will never be a great driver... Utter rubbish
Can I just disagree with the 3rd best car there.... You're saying the Williams BMW was 2nd best?
Soldato
History is usually cruel, if he doesn't win at least one championship he will all but be forgotten.
Anyone remember that other CrashTappen who took out Montoya in Brazil 2001 when he was on for his 1st race win after passing The Michael ???
Soldato
To be fair he was at Silverstone three years on the bounce, two during the F1 support races. Two races in F2 in 2017 (1st and 5th), two in GP3 (at the time) in 2016 (2nd and 3rd) and two in European F3 in 2015 (12th, 2nd and 1st).Knew I was hazey on the details, but I got the jist! In fairness, I spent most of the weekend intoxicated each time I've been
Sir Stirling Moss didn't fair too badly in people's memory.
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Caporegime
Now name another? Moss is the exception not the rule.
Soldato
How about Gilles?
Caporegime
Soldato
I'll throw out Ronnie Peterson but I think I'm going to struggle after that!
There are a few semi-famous names currently (eg Coulthard) but they don't exactly ooze charisma or have star quality to capture the hearts like some others did and will likely be never enter. Alesi should have made it onto such a hypothetical list though and might have done bar some awful luck.
I suppose the other way of looking at it is how many champions have been forgotten or will be forgotten? How many could name the year Denny Hulme was champion unless they looked it up (or played Grand Prix Legends)? What about Phil Hill? Damon Hill or Nico Rosberg might only be remembered as sons of champions in another 50+ years rather than for their characters or on-track accomplishments.
There are a few semi-famous names currently (eg Coulthard) but they don't exactly ooze charisma or have star quality to capture the hearts like some others did and will likely be never enter. Alesi should have made it onto such a hypothetical list though and might have done bar some awful luck.
I suppose the other way of looking at it is how many champions have been forgotten or will be forgotten? How many could name the year Denny Hulme was champion unless they looked it up (or played Grand Prix Legends)? What about Phil Hill? Damon Hill or Nico Rosberg might only be remembered as sons of champions in another 50+ years rather than for their characters or on-track accomplishments.
Soldato
Dan Gurney? Bruce McLaren? Jacky Ickx? Ronnie Peterson? Gilles Villeneuve? Clay Regazzoni? Michele Alboreto? Gerhard Berger? Jean Alesi?
You're not going to tell me that they're all forgotten
Soldato
Well at least that comment brought the die hards into the conversation
I'd argue until your name is known outside of the fans circle for the right reasons then you haven't really made it into the greats, but that will go down like a **** sandwich in here
I'd argue until your name is known outside of the fans circle for the right reasons then you haven't really made it into the greats, but that will go down like a **** sandwich in here