Fuel price discussion thread (was ‘chaos’)

179 highest I've seen locally

Costco Gateshead Yesterday:
154.7 Premium Diseasel
156.7 Premium Pizzle E5
150.7 Standard Pizzle E10

What a fantastic time for work to be wanting people back in the office haha.
 
geekman said:
If a relatively expensive battery is offset by considerably lower repair costs compared to an ICE vehicle, I don't think it's a big deal as you simply plan for that expense in the same way people used to plan for a timing belt change, and pay for a new battery once the range becomes low enough to be impractical.
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It will only be a tiny minority that will ever consider a battery change at their own expense. Those people will most likely have bought the car used after the battery warranty has run out. But even then you are talking about a tiny number of people who will swap the battery out. It just isn't economical. It would only be the people that really love their cars and want to keep them going no matter the cost. For instance, Nissan Leaf first gen battery upgrades from 24 to 40Kwh were £8000 from Cleevley's. Totally not worth it as you could sell a Leaf 24 with even a 50 mile range for £5000. Add the £8000 you would have spent on a battery upgrade and you are basically at the same cost as a Leaf 40Kwh which comes with a battery warranty. Probably one of the reasons Cleevley's has stopped doing the battery upgrades.

Most battery issues will occur within the warranty period, which is usually 7 years, so would be covered. If your battery had lost some range but not enough to claim on the warranty and you were unhappy about it, it would be very easy to sell the car on.

The life cycle of most EV's will be the person drives them until they are bored of it or the range is not enough for them and then they will sell it on to someone else who would be happy with the reduced range (which will probably not be that reduced from new).

Battery replacements are not something potential EV owners need to worry about along with possible battery degradation.
 
lovelyhead said:
The life cycle of most EV's will be the person drives them until they are bored of it or the range is not enough for them and then they will sell it on to someone else who would be happy with the reduced range (which will probably not be that reduced from new).

Battery replacements are not something potential EV owners need to worry about along with possible battery degradation.
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To me the whole EV movement seems like a step backwards, it's not so much a 21st century marvel, more a compromise on the what we already had with ICE vehicles, but now we to worry about range and dying batteries instead. Plus I'm not wholly convinced digging the raw materials out of the ground and refining them for use in batteries on a global scale is that environmentally sound either.

Bring back the days of Concorde and supersonic travel, all this EV business is positively boring. :p
 
norm said:
To me the whole EV movement seems like a step backwards, it's not so much a 21st century marvel, more a compromise on the what we already had with ICE vehicles, but now we to worry about range and dying batteries instead. Plus I'm not wholly convinced digging the raw materials out of the ground and refining them for use in batteries on a global scale is that environmentally sound either.

Bring back the days of Concorde and supersonic travel, all this EV business is positively boring. :p
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Let's go back to the horse and cart.
No crude oil to drill and refine, no metals to mine and think of all those cows that had to give up their skin.

I'm pretty sure the billions of mobile phones use the same raw materials as evs, imagine no mobile phones? :eek:
 
norm said:
To me the whole EV movement seems like a step backwards, it's not so much a 21st century marvel, more a compromise on the what we already had with ICE vehicles, but now we to worry about range and dying batteries instead. Plus I'm not wholly convinced digging the raw materials out of the ground and refining them for use in batteries on a global scale is that environmentally sound either.

Bring back the days of Concorde and supersonic travel, all this EV business is positively boring. :p
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But you don't need to worry about range or dying batteries. You buy an EV with a range you are happy with and you will be fine. Battery degradation is negligible in modern EV's so you don't need to worry about that either.

I'm not sure where you are getting that EV's are boring from either. In fact one of the main reasons I wanted an EV was because I thought ICE cars were boring.

EV's tend to be more technologically advanced than ICE cars. You have cameras, mobile phone apps to turn on heating and charging remotely, instant torque that allows even my lowly Leaf to leave the average ICE car standing at the traffic lights, the ability to have your own personal fuel pump attached to your house that no one else gets to use, apps that automatically monitor your fuel usage, a quieter and smoother ride, etc. etc.

At the price I paid for my Leaf there is no ICE car that can touch it for tech.
 
We all have different needs/wants.

I couldn't think of anything worse than owning and driving a leaf. Once I'm forced into a milk float then it will be a sad, sad day.
 
lovelyhead said:
Apart from the range and looks, it is a really excellent car so I'm not to sure why you would say that.
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I think he's referring more to the driving experience. An electric motor is always going to be a bit soulless. It's probably akin to why automatic transmissions never took off in this country, they're not engaging or fun to drive. Obviously like you say EVs are here to stay whether we like it or not but it won't be the same.
 
I would suggest automatic transmissions never took off with the masses is because they were more expensive to buy and run and generally they were just bad in cars with small engines. The latter is what most people buy because of their fuel consumption.

However, if you actually look at the more premium end of the market these days, the vast majority of cars are actually automatic. Those automatics have come a long way in terms of the 3 issues I have pointed out above to the point I’d now say they are well worth the premium. Some cars are not even available in a manual anymore, including a lot of ‘sports cars’.

An EV actually gives a far better driving experience for the masses, if you’d bother to actually try one.
 
I'll happily have an electric when I feel they are suitable for how I want to use a car. No way I want to stop multiple times to charge to get up and around Scotland when at the minute I get an easy 750+miles to a tank. I'd say if I can have an honest 500 + miles I'll be happy, and that's without nursing it.
Chargers still need to be more available I don't want to have to search for them.
Going to work would be easy can charge for free at work so commuting would be almost free.
 
robj20 said:
I'll happily have an electric when I feel they are suitable for how I want to use a car. No way I want to stop multiple times to charge to get up and around Scotland when at the minute I get an easy 750+miles to a tank. I'd say if I can have an honest 500 + miles I'll be happy, and that's without nursing it.
Chargers still need to be more available I don't want to have to search for them.
Going to work would be easy can charge for free at work so commuting would be almost free.
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So you drive 500+ miles in one sitting without stopping? That would be 8.5 hours of constant driving at an average speed of 60MPH. You don't need 500+ miles. You just want it.
 
lovelyhead said:
So you drive 500+ miles in one sitting without stopping? That would be 8.5 hours of constant driving at an average speed of 60MPH. You don't need 500+ miles. You just want it.
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He didn't say he doesn't stop does he? He says he doesn't want to stop to charge - this is different.

I gave an example further up where I stopped at a Services and all the charging points were in use. It's not unreasonable to not want to have use those facilities on a trip until such time as there is ample supply of them for all.

And again we have the need versus want thing. Most people buy the car that has what they want, not what they need. The entire car market is driven by want and not need.
 
lovelyhead said:
So you drive 500+ miles in one sitting without stopping? That would be 8.5 hours of constant driving at an average speed of 60MPH. You don't need 500+ miles. You just want it.
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No I drive to Scotland to the middle of no where in one go, then a few hours later drive back in one go. What's wrong with wanting it what a silly comment, I bet most things in life no body needs.
 
robj20 said:
I'll happily have an electric when I feel they are suitable for how I want to use a car. No way I want to stop multiple times to charge to get up and around Scotland when at the minute I get an easy 750+miles to a tank. I'd say if I can have an honest 500 + miles I'll be happy, and that's without nursing it.
Chargers still need to be more available I don't want to have to search for them.
Going to work would be easy can charge for free at work so commuting would be almost free.
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How often do you get up to and around Scotland? That's one of the key things. Unless or until batteries take a huge step forward, a 500 mile honest range would just mean a huge, heavy and inefficient EV - carting all that weight around for the occasional long trip
The charging infrastructure is the weak point as we all know I'm sure. If that can be sorted then there's no reason why the majority of people would need more than 200-300 mile honest range. Toilet break and a leg stretch and/or some food and ready to go again.

PHEV's get some hate but I think if the use case fits then they're a good choice at this time. Some of them can do 40-50 miles on the battery now.
 
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