Fuel price discussion thread (was ‘chaos’)

[robj20]

How often do you get up to and around Scotland? That's one of the key things. Unless or until batteries take a huge step forward, a 500 mile honest range would just mean be a huge, heavy and inefficient EV - carting all that weight around for the occasional long trip
The charging infrastructure is the weak point as we all know I'm sure. If that can be sorted then there's no reason why the majority of people would need more than 200-300 mile honest range. Toilet break and a leg stretch and/or some food and ready to go again.

PHEV's get some hate but I think if the use case fits then they're a good choice at this time. Some of them can do 40-50 miles on the battery now.

Definitely in judging the required range based on what I have seen regards possible charging points. Plus that annoying fact that unlike fuel pumps if all the spots are taken they could be taken for a long time.
Once that's sorted I'd definitely be willing to stop a few times for 30 mine or so.

 

[lovelyhead]

No I drive to Scotland to the middle of no where in one go, then a few hours later drive back in one go. What's wrong with wanting it what a silly comment, I bet most things in life no body needs.

Exactly so you don't need a 500+ mile range. You only really need a 250 mile range.

 

[robj20]

Exactly so you don't need a 500+ mile range. You only really need a 250 mile range.

I don't think I ever said I needed anything!
250 miles wouldn't get me there and back actually wouldn't get me one way it's typically 300 miles each way.
I'd have to make another stop to charge it, how long does it take to charge it for another 300 miles.

 

[lovelyhead]

I don't think I ever said I needed anything!
250 miles wouldn't get me there and back actually wouldn't get me one way it's typically 300 miles each way.
I'd have to make another stop to charge it, how long does it take to charge it for another 300 miles.

Fair enough you didn't say you needed it. But that is all you hear about EV's from the uninformed. "I'm not buying one until they have 500 mile range". No one needs a 500 mile range. Certainly not in the UK anyway.

 

[robj20]

Fair enough you didn't say you needed it. But that is all you hear about EV's from the uninformed. "I'm not buying one until they have 500 mile range". No one needs a 500 mile range.

I don't need a car with 200+ bhp, cruise control, climate control but I want those things as well.
I also don't want to waste my time standing around watching a car recharge when I could be another 70+ miles further on with my journey instead.
Not sure how it's being uninformed, how is it uninformed knowing EVs have a vastly limited range or total drive time to complete long journeys?

 

[lovelyhead]

how is it uninformed knowing EVs have a vastly limited range or total drive time to complete long journeys?

But in the real world it just isn't an issue assuming you are a responsible and safe driver. You are only supposed to drive for 4.5 hours and then have a 45 minute rest. 4.5 hours at an average speed of 60mph is 270 miles. 45 minutes is enough time to rapid charge the car.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Fair enough you didn't say you needed it. But that is all you hear about EV's from the uninformed. "I'm not buying one until they have 500 mile range". No one needs a 500 mile range. Certainly not in the UK anyway.

Nobody needs 300bhp or a sunroof either yet plenty of people buy cars which offer it.

If car buying was purely about need then Dacia would be the most popular manufacturer.

 

[robj20]

But in the real world it just isn't an issue assuming you are a responsible and safe driver. You are only supposed to drive for 4.5 hours and then have a 45 minute rest. 4.5 hours at an average speed of 60mph is 270 miles. 45 minutes is enough time to rapid charge the car.

There are no rapid charges in the places I go, so again I'd have to go somewhere else as well to literally watch my car charge.
Once charges are as accessible as fuel pumps things will be loads better, I guess by then charging will be even faster and probably bigger range as well.
Fingers crossed for an alternative to EVs though. I'd hate to imagine the range of an EV on a track day.

 

[lovelyhead]

There are no rapid charges in the places I go, so again I'd have to go somewhere else as well to literally watch my car charge.
Once charges are as accessible as fuel pumps things will be loads better, I guess by then charging will be even faster and probably bigger range as well.
Fingers crossed for an alternative to EVs though. I'd hate to imagine the range of an EV on a track day.

Sounds like your use case is very unusual if there are no rapids nearby. You must be going to the middle of nowhere in the Highlands.

 

[robj20]

Sounds like your use case is very unusual if there are no rapids nearby. You must be going to the middle of nowhere in the Highlands.

I do a lot of hiking, wild camping and photography so remote areas are my preferred destination.
I can certainly see us replacing one of our cars with an EV the next time we're due a change I'd use that just for work and other short journeys.

 

[Simon]

But in the real world it just isn't an issue assuming you are a responsible and safe driver. You are only supposed to drive for 4.5 hours and then have a 45 minute rest. 4.5 hours at an average speed of 60mph is 270 miles. 45 minutes is enough time to rapid charge the car.

Massive assumption that there is a 150kW rapid charger at your destination.

 

[Nasher]

Fair enough you didn't say you needed it. But that is all you hear about EV's from the uninformed. "I'm not buying one until they have 500 mile range". No one needs a 500 mile range. Certainly not in the UK anyway.

500 according to the manufacturer, or for real? Because 500 according to a manufacturer is going to be more like 2-300 with motorway driving and after battery aging.

There are no rapid charges in the places I go, so again I'd have to go somewhere else as well to literally watch my car charge.
Once charges are as accessible as fuel pumps things will be loads better, I guess by then charging will be even faster and probably bigger range as well.
Fingers crossed for an alternative to EVs though. I'd hate to imagine the range of an EV on a track day.

Not just poor range, but keeping them cool is also an issue on track. The motors and batteries don't like being hammered constantly.

 

[Scania]

Anyone else noticing queues at filling stations?

Been to 3 this morning all rammed with queuing onto the road, eventually found a Morrisons - temporarily ditched V-Power due to the LOL price it’s gone to - that wasn’t too bad but still busy, paid 1.65 per litre, then spotted a Tesco’s @1.61 typically

 

[MagicBoy]

500 according to the manufacturer, or for real? Because 500 according to a manufacturer is going to be more like 2-300 with motorway driving and after battery aging..

EVs arn't a 1990s laptop. Go on, provide the proof that EVs are provided 50-60% of the stating range, otherwise we'll know it's typical Nasher dump and run nonsense

 

[Em3bbs]

Why can't some EV owners just accept that other people don't want them? This is the thing I hate most about EV ownership, it's like being a member of the Vegan society, a religion, a UK cycling club or an Apple User Group.

I like my Tesla and Polestar (a lot), but I can understand why other people may not and that's absolutely fine.

 

[DXP55]

Why can't some EV owners just accept that other people will never be able to afford them? This is the thing I hate most about EV ownership, it's like being a member of the Vegan society, a religion, a UK cycling club or an Apple User Group.

I like my Tesla and Polestar (a lot), but I can understand why other people may not and that's absolutely fine.

Quite agree

 

[jpaul]

Go on, provide the proof that EVs are provided 50-60% of the stating range

well the wltp data does seem ill-adapted/dishonest to explain the range variation they might see - isn't it optional to provide highway/cold temp data, or even seperate heating/pre-conditionng power useage; vw had to reemburse people when the heat pump didn't deliver expected efficiency. - the buy at haste repent at leisure paradigm applies;
of course ICE is as lot less energy efficient so, range variation under temp/speed parameters is smaller

Real Range Estimationbetween 120 - 255 mi
City - Cold Weather * 165 mi
Highway - Cold Weather * 120 mi
Combined - Cold Weather * 140 mi
City - Mild Weather * 255 mi
Highway - Mild Weather * 155 mi
Combined - Mild Weather * 195 mi

The apple User group ev ownership analogy is interesting in so much that with smarter phones the battery life declined

 

[Rroff]

EVs arn't a 1990s laptop. Go on, provide the proof that EVs are provided 50-60% of the stating range, otherwise we'll know it's typical Nasher dump and run nonsense

I've been on and off the fence on buying an EV for awhile - but I've not been inspired by the real world range and even to an extent battery degradation from taking a look at some used ones and browsing online listings where they show the current/latest range estimates and battery condition.

Obviously that will be modified somewhat by the usage pattern of the previous owner.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I apply a -33% to -25% (weather dependent) to my own cars WLTP rating.

It’s rating is 306 miles and it will comfortably do 200 at motorway speeds in winter with a bit of a buffer at the end.

But yeh, if I was buying used, I’d be taking an ODBII reader with me, particularly older cars. No doubt used car sales people will do anything they can to obscure and significant degradation.

 

[ShiWarrior]

why are we off topic ?

anyway,

local garage is 171.9 for Unleaded 95 ron
179.9 for normal diesel