Fuel up/down again

[[TW]Fox]

Just a quick reminder that it was felt by the Government that fuel still isn't quite expensive enough, so another 0.76p was added to fuel duty today. I should point out this was the Labour government who implemented this rise, but of course the current government did have the option of removing it..

Another 2.5p or so will be added on the 4th January as well

I'm not normally critical of government policy but the near 10p increase in fuel duty since the highs of 2008 can only be seen as shameful. The high fuel prices were a huge contributer to pushing the country into recession.

And before all you diesel owners get smug, its worth noticing the ever increasing gap between petrol and diesel prices which is set to get even bigger due to production restrictions on the amount of diesel you get for the amount of petrol you get..

 

[[TW]Fox]

but as i still get double the miles a similar petrol car would give, i'm still slightly smug.

I cannot think of a single car on sale today where the diesel variant has twice the combined consumption figure of its petrol equivilent in the range.

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's so annoying, I'm practically paying £1.40 a litre at the moment for BP Ultimate, I think I'm going to clip that in the ear if it continues up much further and just get the standard Tesco diesel

Why on earth are you wasting your money at BP? Along with Texaco they are probably the biggest ripoff merchants on the road. I make a point of NEVER filling up with fuel at a BP or Texaco garage.

If you are putting Ulltimate Diesel in a stock 120d you are mad.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why do you say that? - afaik Stobart use exclusively "Ultimate" diesel albeit, afaik, from Shell rather than BP

Good enough for a Scania, good enough for a BMW? No?

It's 140p a litre! Whats the point!? He has a normal diesel hatchback, it's not as if he's a 335d or something. It's a 163bhp 2 litre diesel. It's built for economy, putting 140p a litre diesel into it removes the economy benefit surely?

 

[[TW]Fox]

True enough I suppose. - I guess Stobart don't pay anywhere near that! - By the same logic, am I wasting my money putting Ultimate (petrol) into my e39? - Genuine question !

The performance and economy figures for your engine are based on 97-98 RON fuel, so no, it isnt a waste. The same is not the case for the diesel variants. That said, even I'd draw the line at BP Ultimate simply because BP are just a massive ripoff - wherever you go, BP are taking the mick with fuel prices. Even if they are opposite another service station they are ALWAYS charging more.

You'll be familiar with the services just near the end of the M6 near Gretna. There is a BP one side and a Shell the other. Yesterday, Shell was 3p a litre less than BP the other side. Thats just how BP are.

So just avoid them and buy VPower unleaded instead, or Super from any other garage. Personally I use Sainsburys Super in mine most of the time.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I predict demand destruction before it reaches £2 a litre.

This will not be a good thing for our economy.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I've explained my reasons on here many times before

It sounds a lot less rough on BP Ultimate, I don't put it in for performance purposes, although I do think it is a little better in the low rev range with the expensive stuff, but it's mainly how it sounds on idle and at low revs

It just seems to feel and sound a lot less rough than it does with say standard Tesco or Esso fuel

It's broken then - if you must buy 'Premium diesel' buy it from Shell instead.

The market should punish companies which price themselves at the top end unless the value they add to the product is justified. In the case of BP this is not the case.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I never see Bp being more. a lot of stations are franchises so could explain the local differences. My closest is the co-op Bp and the same price as Sainsburys.

I am amazed that you see this - no matter where I go in the country BP is always several pence per litre more than anyone else excluding Texaco.

BP Smithaleigh this evening 126.9, Sainsburys Marsh Mills 121.9. BP Winning Post Halden Hill 127.9, Shell at the bottom of Halden hill 124.9. BP one side of the M6 was, as I said, more than Shell the other side. The BP garage down the road from my hotel in Edinburgh, 124.9. The Esso garage outside the Hotel, 119.9 (Yes, really, I couldnt beleive that either), Sainsburys opposite Esso 118.9.

Wherever I go, BP are there charging more than everyone else.

Oh yes, BP garage one side of the roundabout after the Forth Bridge 124.9, Shell the other side of the SAME roundabout 122.9.

It's consistent wherever I am.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well they all have these big signs up with the prices on

 

[[TW]Fox]

Wont be long before £2 litre.

There are no further duty increases scheduled (after the VAT increase) therefore at the moment any future rises are purely off the back of oil price increases (And thus a nice way for the government to try and deflect the blame).

All that can really save us is Sterling becoming a bit less than worthless again.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Another increase in April -



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12098981

ANOTHER ONE?!

Seriously, what the hell!?

 

[[TW]Fox]

the government arnt helping, you can tell there are a load of tory pigs in power!

Yes, because it isnt as if Labour stuck 10p of extra duty on in the last 2 years alone, is it?

 

[[TW]Fox]

The very idea you'd tell Jez to 'go away' on a subject like this is quite hilarious.

There is very little profit in RETAIL FUEL. Often, RETAIL FUEL is subsidised by the massive profits from oil production rather than refined fuel retail.

The roads are not paved with gold in flogging petrol on forecourts.

Extracting oil is HUGELY profitable. Selling it to us in the form of unleaded is not.

Here is a clue, stop talking ****.

He isn't. You are.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Oh here we go, moron of the day.

So do you glorious leader of all dicks in motors

ARHARHAHRAHRARHHGHG morons.

I think that pretty much speaks for itself.

That sort of reaction because people think you are wrong about fuel prices is just abnormal, sorry. And yet you think the problem is everyone else?

Chuckle.

 

[[TW]Fox]

You are a dick

You really are so good at this debating thing.

I tell him to go away because clearly there is profit in the UK fuel market.

You went mental because somebody had a different opinion to you. You do this all the time. Then when people pick up on the fact you don't take kindly to people not agreeing with you, you go absolutely bonkers and hurl personal insults around. That doesnt really lend you any credibility, does it?

The profits in UK retail fuel are very low - so low that major players have decided it simply isn't worth continuing. Some filling stations even make a loss.

This is pretty much the opposite of your opinion we are being screwed over by petrol stations who apparently rake in millions in profits.

Might be pennies at the petrol court, but overall petrolium and oil production is a very profitable business.

Therefore, trying to claim they 'try to make profit', or there is 'no profit' is craptastic nonesense.

So now you agree with us?! We are talking about the petrol forecourt NOT oil production itself. There is no quesiton that oil production is hugely profitable. Nobody has disputed this. We are talking about the PETROL FORECOURT.

Which you, yourself, have just admitted that the profit 'Might be pennies at the petrol court', after being rude and abusive to everyone who disagreed with you.

 

[[TW]Fox]

arguing the toss with drivelling idiots?

And again the constant abuse continues. Look at yourself - you are being rude and abusive because people think you are wrong about petrol stations. Don't you think you are being a bit over the top here?

I once received a weeks suspension for calling somebodies Dad a 'moron' for not letting him drive on the Motorway. I wonder what the dons will make of your little outburst?

I never said petrol stations either;

We are talking about buying petrol from petrol stations. Why would you talk about anything but petrol stations? Nothing else is really relevent is it?

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's not only petrol stations?

I quite clearly said petrol company, ie overall.

The essense was government rip us off, not the oil companies.

With overall profits running into figures like that, I thought some counterbalance was due.

The cost of a litre of unleaded petrol is circa 44p.

The cost of a litre of unleaded petrol at my local petrol station is 122p.

The difference between the two figures is tax.

It is the government that are responsible for the high prices.


We do not buy petrol from an oil major at a refinery. We buy petrol from a retail forecourt - some of which are backed by oil majors, many of which are simply one man band franchises.

I'll take my nearest petrol station for example - it isnt run by anyone but the owner of that forecourt. He has a franchise from an oil major, but it's HIS business and HIS profits.

This place is full of idiots and morons, it's only the truth.

If an outsider was to view this thread who would they decide fits that? The people debating petrol prices or the person hurling abuse at everyone who disagrees with him?

Read above, you're not that clever fox.

This is a useful thread as I can simply present it next time somebody suggests I am what is wrong with Motors.

You've always been quite a character but your reaction in this thread is simply amazing.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Yes, well done fox.

And the oil companies operations overall still do very very well.

Why are you unable to seperate 'oil company'? Do you not understand how business is structured?

Still fed up the mods got fed up of your 'personality'?

We obviously need more of yours, it would seem.

So is you wading into everything that sparks up in here.

You're like a shark with blood.

Or a fly with ****?

Wading in!? It's a thread I started!

 

[[TW]Fox]

No profit what so ever?

He is talking about meaningful profit within the context of a multinational.

If you run 500 forecourts, what you'd probably consider a 'profit' is not 'meaningful'.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I can, if there is any relevance?

And of course I do.

So therefore you'll realise that the retail fuel arms are seperate entities, and it's these entities that people are saying are not really profitable in the way you think they are.

Generally speaking you have 3 different types of fuel retailer:

a) Retail arms of oil majors
b) Supermarkets
c) Independantly owned franchises and independant traders

Supermarkets often use fuel as a loss leader because the profit margin elsewhere in the business is high enough to sustain this. Independants do not have this luxury and therefore have margins which are very, very tiny.

It may be your thread, but wading into an argument not originally held by yourself.

It's a discussion forum, thats the entire point

I saw a discussion which I wanted to have some involvement in. Just like you did. Thats how forums work, let alone just Motors!