Full EV Woes!

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SexyGreyFox said:
Looks like he bought a car where it was claimed do so many miles and it doesn't.
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Ace Modder said:
So it's acceptable that the listed distance is out by almost 50% then? That is acceptable to you?
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The WLTP is not a guarantee that you will achieve a given range in any and all circumstances.

It's especially not a guarantee that you'll be able to drive a brick-shaped SUV at motorway speeds, in winter, no doubt with heaters and AC running. Even a moderate headwind will take a significant chunk of range off.
 
Ace Modder said:
The problem is that EV owners seem to justify their purchases to the extreme, when in reality there are too many comprimises vs an good old petrol car.
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Lets be honest you are probably one of the very few EV owners here anyway :) So its a more relevant view than a lot of the posters.

[TW]Fox said:
This was surprisingly accurate.
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I nearly predicted you would come and add 'value' like that aswell.

Far too easy.
 
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Ace Modder said:
The problem is that EV owners seem to justify their purchases to the extreme, when in reality there are too many comprimises vs an good old petrol car.

Yes, EV cars have some benefits, but the negatives are more impactful than the benefits overall for a main-stay use for vehicles in general. (excluding EV cars that are £80k+ which of course have less of the negatives - but thats a different topic)

I'm talking about sub £30k new petrol cars vs sub £30k new EV cars.
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entry level version of the long range MG4 is probably the poster child there for the EV you want to look at. More cars are coming this year hopefully.
until then imo unless you can get some sort of lease deal with tax breaks imo you are better looking at 2nd hand cars.

i would not even contemplate any brand new car paid in full, but certainly not an EV... 2nd hand you have loads of options at your price bracket, the kona, eniro, mg4, tesla model 3, ipace, even a tesla model S if you are prepared to take a punt and go older.

yes there are problems which need to improve (and in general they are) but with a tiny amount of planning most issues can be negated. the 3 charge points out of action was the major pita here imo, and i wonder if that would have shown up on zapmap for instance, meaning you could have gone to a different charge point.

Despite what the EV naysayers are saying i am not trying to say is all good and you are all wrong...... for now small organisational changes are needed for long journeys esp for cars with in reality 130 winter motorway miles .

but i think its worth it, given the state of the air quality in places with congested traffic. in the past we had no choice, there were no other options, but now there are.
 
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Ace Modder said:
Very productive addition to the subject, you must be fun at parties.
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Well your car would get there in one hit! When you use a runabout EV for a long trip and suprised it didnt do the distance why exactly are making a post. Im purplexed!

And 100% know that at said party you wouldnt speak like that either... it would be at a location 161 miles away :p :cry:
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
Lets be honest you are probably one of the very few EV owners here anyway :) So its a more relevant view than a lot of the posters.



I nearly predicted you would come and add 'value' like that aswell.

Far too easy.
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This si the point I'm trying to get across, an affordable EV car for ther typical Joe Bloggs who doesn't want to buy an expensive car will in years to come be a frustrated group who will end up hating on EV cars on mass and that's not what society/establishment wants - they have an agenda to push EV cars for environmental reasons (which i prefer that is not a topic discussed here as it is detracting from my OP) But it won't be a long term successful outcome if EV cars don't get improvmements across the entry-mid range sector.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Well your car would get there in one hit! When you use a runabout EV for a long trip and suprised it didnt do the distance why exactly are making a post. Im purplexed!

And 100% know that at said party you wouldnt speak like that either... it would be at a location 161 miles away :p :cry:
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He'd miss the party waiting for a charger.
 
[TW]Fox said:
This was surprisingly accurate.
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In fairness he complains that EVs need to be more efficient than his Mokka and I only pointed out there are already far more efficient EVs out there.
And he is complaining of a worse case one off 18mpg equivalent journey and comparing that to his 370z without any balance of the 10 times cheaper local miles he does in the Mokka, which again is a bit weird..

Ace Modder said:
So it's acceptable that the listed distance is out by almost 50% then? That is acceptable to you?
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Whilst annoying, its a function of the technology and needs far better information and education out there to help people make the right decisions/understand it.

EVs aren't ready for prime time yet for this reason, I accept that, and am always cautious about encouraging people to buy one and explain all this to them.. we are slowly getting more people in work with EVs and it's quite an education session, from charging, to range to battery maintenance etc.. and no matter what, you can't say they won't have a stressful one off public charging nightmare..
 
£30k EV just dont make sense, Unfortunatley little cars like Polos etc dont make sense ICE to meet EU6 , particularly diesel flavour so theres a real shortage of traditional cheap cars in the market and the Chinese are capitalising on it.

Heres the reality being frank though.

SPORTS CARS WOES - I cant carry all the luggage i need for a trip

Secondary car woes - The household runabout car is great day to day but won't do Stoke to Heathrow convinently.

Its kind of an issue of your own making isnt it?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Looks like he bought a car where it was claimed do so many miles and it doesn't.
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If you drive the WLTP test, you’ll get the rated consumption and therefore range. The issue is no one drives the WLTP test EV or ICE.

Its purpose is to enable consumers to compare vehicles against each other as a fixed benchmark.

I’d dispute the notion that the Mokka is a mid range car and is whatever the opposite of class leading is on that front. You could argue something like a Zoe is a mid range car, it has a slightly bigger battery than the Mokka but it’s much smaller and goes much further on a charge.

For me, a mid range car should be able to do 180-200 real world miles in all weathers. Anything less is short range IMO.

Once you start hitting 230+ all weather range you are into long range vehicles.


Ace Modder said:
The problem is that EV owners seem to justify their purchases to the extreme, when in reality there are too many comprimises vs an good old petrol car.

Yes, EV cars have some benefits, but the negatives are more impactful than the benefits overall for a main-stay use for vehicles in general. (excluding EV cars that are £80k+ which of course have less of the negatives - but thats a different topic)

I'm talking about sub £30k new petrol cars vs sub £30k new EV cars.
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Why do you home in on £70-80k cars?

You don’t need to spend anything like that kind of cash to get some great cars.

MG4, MG5 and MG ZS have typically represented excellent value for money.

The old Kona was a bit expensive but it’s best in class and has excellent range. It’s essentially the size as the Mokka.

£40k buys you a Model 3 SR which is one of the best EVs on the market. Sure it’s not for everyone but it’s an excellent package for the money.

You could get a Model Y SR on tick as a private buyer for £400-450/month recently. Great car of the cash if your insurance isn’t too crazy.
 
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When it comes to advertised range, the whole WLTP range thing can be misleading and it's probably something that needs to be considered in future - it (and NEDC) whilst never spectacularly accurate for MPG were generally in the ball park and even if they weren't, people had learnt why and what to expect.

When it comes to EVs and the way range is a concern for people, particularly for longer trips, the fact the typically published number comes from the WLTP test carried out at mostly low speeds with a lot of regeneration opportunity, it is probably less relevant than ever for someone who wants to know how far they can go in their car sat on the motorway at 65-75mph.

There's definitely scope for improvement in helping consumers be better informed about the capabilities of a particular vehicle in alternative operating scenarios. It's only going to cause more and more confusion and resentment of the tech as a whole if manufacturers continue to push the results of a 30mph average start stop test cycle without having to make people aware that number is potentially completely irrelevant for high speed steady state driving.
 
Like mpg and 0-60 times on many cars. It's borderline fraud tbh. Driving in a way that doesn't reflect the real world on tests, one foot rollouts etc.

EVs get much less efficient at speeds where ICE cars are at their most efficient. That needs to be made clearer.
 
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Nasher said:
EVs get much less efficient at speeds where ICE cars are at their most efficient. That needs to be made clearer.
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That’s not really true either is it. Both ICE and EVs tune their ratios to maximise their performance in the WLTP test.

ICE cars are typically most efficient in their highest gear just above stall speed. For most cars thats is circa 45mph. Going faster than that they get less efficient because you know physics is a **** and all that.
 
Well it's the wifes car, not mine. Her decision ultimately, but she is looking at other cars currently. Nothing set in stone for what she wants yet.

she doesn't even know if she wants to stay with EV yet, but that EV site is useful and MG4 extended range seems to have better range for sure, I have given her that as a possibility, if she wants to stay with an EV car, ofcourse I will guide her with my thoughts but she ultimately makes the decision on her own car.
 
My wife goes to visit her mum for 5 days at a time once a month, to help with her monthly cancer treatment, and public charging for her is a nightmare also, due to limited range she gets.

Her mother lives in Walsall we live near Stoke, so it's not a massive journey but still enough for her to need to use public charger points when she is over there for a week, with the other local driving she does.
(Trip is 33 miles each way)
 
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Ace Modder said:
and the car managed 120 miles only on a full charge
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EV Database says 125 which is nearly bang on.

City - Cold Weather *180 mi
Highway - Cold Weather *125 mi
Combined - Cold Weather *150 mi

City - Mild Weather *270 mi
Highway - Mild Weather *160 mi
Combined - Mild Weather *205 mi
 
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