You are aware that a mortgage holiday is am Absolutely ridiculous thing to do... Absolutely bonkers if anyone uses it.I’m guessing 80% of your salary given what you do won’t exactly be a pittance ? Sure it might not cover all you mortgage or bills buy you’ll probably be able to negotiate something with your creditors to sort things out . Much like most of the UK population.
I’ve just had 2 prime examples of this with employees on furlough, both asking to take other jobs as 80% didn’t cover thee living costs , both hadn’t organised mortgage or car loan holidays . They have both been asked not to take other jobs due to the sensitive nature of our work , we are now waiting for HR to give us some advice .
‘As crappy you as the deal looks for you now ask yourself this , when everyone returns to work full time in probably September what’s you company going to do with the staff that are now on furlough? I’m sure like most some will be made redundant, I wouldn’t be rattling anyones ass at the moment and you might just find you come out the other end the hero with a brand new cant refuse contract . Causing issues now will probably have repercussions further down the line.
As far as senior managers and directors not coming into the office , believe you me most are hating the situation probably more than you. It’s a continued rollercoaster of contingency planning of how the future of a post lockdown business will look , the added stress of health and safety now in the work place ( does your office have enough room ) and also phased returns of staff to the work place . Oh and then there is also the axe list - yes we created ours this week - not nice .
My advice is Take one for the team , your really don’t want to be in the job market come October . It’s not going to be a pretty place !
furlough and pay cut
- Thread starter Andreworex
- Start date
You are aware that a mortgage holiday is am Absolutely ridiculous thing to do... Absolutely bonkers if anyone uses it.
Soldato
Why?
Even if you are leaving, you should be getting 100% pay. You haven't agreed to any cut.
Send them a notice that you have not accepted any variation on your contract. It sounds like they don't know what they are talking about.
No company/manager can renege on a contract. Either pay the person 100% of their salary or go through the redundancy process. The employee does not need to accept being furloughed.
Nor is it the employee's responsibility to financially support the company.
In the OPs case it is even worse. Sounds like they are still working full time with a paycut. He is literally gifting the company 20% of his time for free.
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Long term you end up paying out more?
Soldato
That's certainly true, but it's not a massive difference, and relief in the here and now when you're really struggling is of greater impact.
I'm certainly interested in @Diagro 's expert take on it. Particularly as, IIRC, he had his house bought for him outright by his in-laws, so it's not a problem he'll have to navigate
Interest is crippling.
I know a chap who did the whole 3 months.
His bank told him he owes an additional 3k on top of his original mortgage amount for doing it.
He only skipped 3* 850 payments and owes an additional 3k plus the 3 payments he missed.
Martin from that money website goes into detail about why its a very bad thing to do.
You recall too much about me...That's certainly true, but it's not a massive difference, and relief in the here and now when you're really struggling is of greater impact.
I'm certainly interested in @Diagro 's expert take on it. Particularly as, IIRC, he had his house bought for him outright by his in-laws, so it's not a problem he'll have to navigate
Yea I don't have one of those crippling financially stressful things in my life.
If I did... I'd be miserable all day every day.
Soldato
I'm always a little bemused at how tone deaf you are to the reality of most people's mortgage burden, so it sticks in the memory. Another example of it hereYou recall too much about me...
Yea I don't have one of those crippling financially stressful things in my life.
If I did... I'd be miserable all day every day.
Soldato
Soldato
If people like you want to start quoting the rule book at people for any contract negotiations then I say good luck With that. I would personal save it until the proverbial hits the fans , believe me it’s going to by the truck load in late September. If you did it to me ( and I directly mange 52 members of staff and over a 100 sub contractors ) then guess where you might be on the forthcoming hit list. It’s just off the record advice I’m trying to give .
More or less everyone currently on furlough will be lucky at best to come back to a job or even reduced hours , bottom line is until a vaccine is found we will never work or lives in the same way every again .
Soldato
Just to crunch these numbers, (using simplified maths, it doesn't quite work like this).
£850 x 3 = £2,550
Assuming you return to normal payments, a holiday will mean your mortgage is £2,550 higher for its entire duration, compared with not holidaying.
That means interest on £2,550 every year until you pay it off.
At 3% interest (higher than present rates, but perhaps a better long-term estimate):
£2,550 x 0.03 = £76.50 per year
Assume it's a pretty new mortgage, so 25 years to run:
£76.50 x 25 = £1912.50
So your £3k figure isn't too wild (has he got a really long mortgage, or a crap rate?). But for a lot of lenders you'd pay that extra over the full term with slightly increased monthly payments:
£1912.50 ÷ 25 years ÷ 12 months = £6.38 per month extra
And for others, you'd just pay an extra few months of mortgage at the end, a long way in the future.
It's certainly worth taking a mortgage holiday in the present if your finances are very tight. Most people have a shorter term than those calculations, so the extra interest would be much less and, therefore, the holiday would cost even less.
It's certainly not 'ridiculous' or 'bonkers' to take the payment holiday, even if you don't actually really need it. Though I would suggest people don't unless it's necessary.
And that would be illegal. Me holding you accountable to the contract you gave me isn't illegal, unethical or wrong. Either your contracts are worth the paper they are written on, or they are "guidelines". I wouldn't want to work for someone who thinks they can do whatever they want for their employees when they feel like it and then will punish them for standing up for themselves.
No one is saying managing is easy. But presumably that's why you get paid more, to do a harder job.
You think what you would be doing is right? Treating them worse because they are holding you to the contractual promises you made to them when you hired them?
Fortunately where I work the concept that you would work full time and take a pay cut would be laughed out the room. It's just a gift from employees to the employer. I can think of many more worthy causes for 20% of my salary.
There's only one large company I know of that tried this rubbish.
https://www.postonline.co.uk/broker/7648941/aon-u-turns-on-salary-cuts
And not only have they backtracked with BS reasons, they are paying 5% on top.
If a company needs more money then it should come from shareholders. Not steal that money from full time working employees.
If they can't work, then the furlough scheme is appropriate as an alternative to redundancy.
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Wow, you sound like a dream to work for.
If I was in the OP's position or worked for this guy I'd be looking for a job ASAP. I own and run a business and if I ever started treating my team like that I'd have failed in many ways.
If your business hasn't planned for hard times, take a look at yourself and don't take it out on your team!
Soldato
Good luck in the job markets guys .
Managers like you are the worst type out there, actually feel sorry for the staff you manage. You basically think you can treat an employee like **** and if they don't like it well tough you will just add them to the 'list'. So little respect for others and so much selfishness.
Good luck in life as you have some real attitude issues. Grow up.
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Luck doesn't come into it, having actual skill and abilities that bring and add value to the company isn't "luck" its years of graft and experience.
The fact you also think "you should be lucky to have a job" towards your employees shows your colours and I would be out the door, just like I have for my employer that thinks I should prop up the annual accounts which they will all draw a contractual bonus out of once the dust settles - the employees are basically subsidising the bonuses of the management teams.
Funny isn't it how "contractual bonuses" aren't cut but the "contractual pay" of the employee's are.
Another great idea my employer has decided is to offer LOANS to the employees that are now struggling to afford to even come to work after having 20% cut...can't make it up!
Soldato
I'm interested to see what your employers say when you hand in your notice
So am I , I think a wipe of the brow might me forthcoming .