furlough and pay cut

Bald-Eagle22 · 3 Jul 2020 at 16:26

Andreworex said:
Luck doesn't come into it, having actual skill and abilities that bring and add value to the company isn't "luck" its years of graft and experience.

The fact you also think "you should be lucky to have a job" towards your employees shows your colours and I would be out the door, just like I have for my employer that thinks I should prop up the annual accounts which they will all draw a contractual bonus out of once the dust settles - the employees are basically subsidising the bonuses of the management teams.

Funny isn't it how "contractual bonuses" aren't cut but the "contractual pay" of the employee's are.

Another great idea my employer has decided is to offer LOANS to the employees that are now struggling to afford to even come to work after having 20% cut...can't make it up!

A2Z said:
Managers like you are the worst type out there, actually feel sorry for the staff you manage. You basically think you can treat an employee like **** and if they don't like it well tough you will just add them to the 'list'. So little respect for others and so much selfishness.

Good luck in life as you have some real attitude issues. Grow up.

Yep and in normal times I’d also berate someone like me , but we’re not .Come back in October and lets all have the same conversation again .

‘Last bit of advice guys , it’s not the time to start throwing the rule book at your employers until your being issued your P45 .

Beerbaron · 3 Jul 2020 at 16:27

It will cost them more in the long term as they will have to employ someone else of on a full salary plus the recruitment fees.

muon · 3 Jul 2020 at 18:11

Bald-Eagle22 said:
Yep and in normal times I’d also berate someone like me , but we’re not .Come back in October and lets all have the same conversation again .

‘Last bit of advice guys , it’s not the time to start throwing the rule book at your employers until your being issued your P45 .

Lol. You have some power complex going on.

You can't just issue a P45.

Given that you said you have 100 sub-contractors it sounds like you are in a sector where people suck up to you all the time giving you a misunderstanding of what powers an employer actually has.

No one is gonna cut my pay 20% if I work full time. Good luck treating me specially in October because I forced you to abide by the contract we both agreed. You have a HR or legal department? You should talk to them about it.

Slam62 · 3 Jul 2020 at 18:29

cheesyboy said:
That's certainly true, but it's not a massive difference, and relief in the here and now when you're really struggling is of greater impact.

I'm certainly interested in @Diagro 's expert take on it. Particularly as, IIRC, he had his house bought for him outright by his in-laws, so it's not a problem he'll have to navigate

I would still pay but pay off capital

Slam62 · 3 Jul 2020 at 18:31

cheesyboy said:
Why?

You're obviously from the school of all borrowing is good borrowing, unfortunately it is only good for the lender, the borrower ends up with nothing. Especially now.

Slam62 · 3 Jul 2020 at 18:33

Beerbaron said:
It will cost them more in the long term as they will have to employ someone else of on a full salary plus the recruitment fees.

Yeah but that's money in the future, employers are worried about cashflow today.

Bald-Eagle22 · 3 Jul 2020 at 21:42

muon said:
Lol. You have some power complex going on.

You can't just issue a P45.

Given that you said you have 100 sub-contractors it sounds like you are in a sector where people suck up to you all the time giving you a misunderstanding of what powers an employer actually has.

No one is gonna cut my pay 20% if I work full time. Good luck treating me specially in October because I forced you to abide by the contract we both agreed. You have a HR or legal department? You should talk to them about it.

And another one that’s missing the point -

I’ll say it again- I’m going to be very surprised if you can just walk into a another job in the present climate , it’s very simple in your employers eyes either take the 20% cut that the rest of your colleagues have taken for the company to survive or make yourself redundant- your that master of your known destiny not me .

I was trying to give you some advice that might make you the hero when you firm pulls through as you have played your part - obviously your not a team player .

Guys we really are not in normal times , the rule book has to a degree been torn up . Stick your head above the parapet and you know what happens .

Your call .

Goood luck everyone .

muon · 3 Jul 2020 at 22:05

Bald-Eagle22 said:
And another one that’s missing the point -

I’ll say it again- I’m going to be very surprised if you can just walk into a another job in the present climate , it’s very simple in your employers eyes either take the 20% cut that the rest of your colleagues have taken for the company to survive or make yourself redundant- your that master of your known destiny not me .

I was trying to give you some advice that might make you the hero when you firm pulls through as you have played your part - obviously your not a team player .

Guys we really are not in normal times , the rule book has to a degree been torn up . Stick your head above the parapet and you know what happens .

Your call .

Goood luck everyone .

Team player? This is gifting shareholders money. Why would you do that? You have no equity in the company, this isn't a partnership.

Why don't shareholders issue shares for working full time and investing in the company?

I don't think you understand what is going on here.

The only time a paycut is appropriate is if negotiated as part of a contract or if on the furlough scheme. If you are working full time, you should be getting what you were promised to be paid.

This sounds like a horrible place to work for managed by people like you who think asking employees for 20% of their salary is about playing for the team.

A lot of people will be able to get a job in the time it takes you to make them redundant (with full pay btw during their notice period plus redundancy pay). Even then you would have to justify that redundancy and can't have malicious intent, otherwise you'd get sued for even more money. Like I said speak to HR and a lawyer within your company.

Most employers don't think like you (as they actually know employment law). So it is terrible advice.

Bald-Eagle22 · 3 Jul 2020 at 22:17

muon said:
Team player? This is gifting shareholders money. Why would you do that? You have no equity in the company, this isn't a partnership.

Why don't shareholders issue shares for working full time and investing in the company?

I don't think you understand what is going on here.

The only time a paycut is appropriate is if negotiated as part of a contract or if on the furlough scheme. If you are working full time, you should be getting what you were promised to be paid.

This sounds like a horrible place to work for managed by people like you who think asking employees for 20% of their salary is about playing for the team.

A lot of people will be able to get a job in the time it takes you to make them redundant (with full pay btw during their notice period plus redundancy pay). Even then you would have to justify that redundancy and can't have malicious intent, otherwise you'd get sued for even more money. Like I said speak to HR and a lawyer within your company.

Most employers don't think like you (as they actually know employment law). So it is terrible advice.

like I said- Good luck

muon · 3 Jul 2020 at 22:20

Bald-Eagle22 said:
like I said- Good luck

I'm doing fine thanks. I feel sorry for the people you manage. You are screwing them based on an implicit (illegal) threat.

dowie · 4 Jul 2020 at 07:31

Andreworex said:
Just an update, the 20% cut is in place until November! 7 months at 20% less pay for me, that is SEVERAL thousands of pounds in lost income.

I tried talking to them, they just use the "well xyz company is cutting 20k staff" and I kid you not "you should be lucky you have work at this time" - that was the straw that broke the camels back to be honest.

Ok but why did you agree to it? Like if you’re the only IT guy and you’re so essential then just say no thanks, I don’t agree with a pay cut then they have to talk to you about it.

With that, I put my CV online, within a day I had several interviews all paying better, closer to home and part of a team! decided on which one to go for and handing my notice in as soon as I pass the conditional offer (security/sensitive job so needs enhanced vetting), it will be 3 months notice which given they cut my pay 20%, I will cut my notice also as I see fit, swings and roundabouts and all that.

I think you had the most leverage back in April and should have just said no then. If you haven’t actually said yes then I’d remind them of that and tell them you expect your full pay. I really think you should have addressed this 2.5 months ago , then the notice period would be part way complete by now anyway.

Bald-Eagle22 · 4 Jul 2020 at 19:38

muon said:
I'm doing fine thanks. I feel sorry for the people you manage. You are screwing them based on an implicit (illegal) threat.

You really didn’t read my posts now did you .

So Mr Militant you really do have a lot to learn. It was all off the cuff advice of what actually goes on in the real world , are you really that stupid to believe I would broadcast it to my staff that management are making you all redundant as your quoting the rule book . Really !

Yep I’m also going to feel very sorry for them as they are all getting a P45’s in November - I might add followed by mine in January , the company is winding up. Luckily for me I’ll have a nice fat redundancy package after 17 years service - so much so it’s clears my mortgage . With my BTL bringing in a nice income and draw down on my pension in 3 years time I’ll be fine .

No more dealing with little ***** retards ever again that quote the rule book at you , ooo don’t just want to punch them in the face! Remind you of anyone ?

Prophet · 4 Jul 2020 at 19:38

Bald-Eagle22 said:
Good luck in the job markets guys .

The IT job market is doing well and IT companies in general are doing well.

muon · 4 Jul 2020 at 20:00

Bald-Eagle22 said:
You really didn’t read my posts now did you .

So Mr Militant you really do have a lot to learn. It was all off the cuff advice of what actually goes on in the real world , are you really that stupid to believe I would broadcast it to my staff that management are making you all redundant as your quoting the rule book . Really !

Yep I’m also going to feel very sorry for them as they are all getting a P45’s in November - I might add followed by mine in January , the company is winding up. Luckily for me I’ll have a nice fat redundancy package after 17 years service - so much so it’s clears my mortgage . With my BTL bringing in a nice income and draw down on my pension in 3 years time I’ll be fine .

No more dealing with little ***** retards ever again that quote the rule book at you , ooo don’t just want to punch them in the face! Remind you of anyone ?

If the company is winding up, sounds like your employees should be forcing the company to pay 100% salaries (which they are entitled to) right now.

Who gets the proceeds as the company winds up I wonder. So much for playing for the team. More like please don't deplete the assets so that debtors and shareholders have something left over. In fact it's probably in your interest the company has money left over in January. Nice not so impartial advice.

Bald-Eagle22 · 4 Jul 2020 at 21:07

muon said:
If the company is winding up, sounds like your employees should be forcing the company to pay 100% salaries (which they are entitled to) right now.

Who gets the proceeds as the company winds up I wonder. So much for playing for the team. More like please don't deplete the assets so that debtors and shareholders have something left over. In fact it's probably in your interest the company has money left over in January. Nice not so impartial advice.

Prophet said:
The IT job market is doing well and IT companies in general are doing well.

Undoubtedly now , let’s see how that pans out in about 6 months time with mass unemployment and less need for I.T bods .

Don’t kids yourselves guys !

A2Z · 4 Jul 2020 at 21:20

Bald-Eagle22 said:
You really didn’t read my posts now did you .

So Mr Militant you really do have a lot to learn. It was all off the cuff advice of what actually goes on in the real world , are you really that stupid to believe I would broadcast it to my staff that management are making you all redundant as your quoting the rule book . Really !

Yep I’m also going to feel very sorry for them as they are all getting a P45’s in November - I might add followed by mine in January , the company is winding up. Luckily for me I’ll have a nice fat redundancy package after 17 years service - so much so it’s clears my mortgage . With my BTL bringing in a nice income and draw down on my pension in 3 years time I’ll be fine .

No more dealing with little ***** retards ever again that quote the rule book at you , ooo don’t just want to punch them in the face! Remind you of anyone ?

Good to know the reason you have such an attitude problem. Hypocritical selfishness.

Prophet · 5 Jul 2020 at 11:15

Bald-Eagle22 said:
Undoubtedly now , let’s see how that pans out in about 6 months time with mass unemployment and less need for I.T bods .

Don’t kids yourselves guys !

How have you come to the conclusion that there will be less need for IT bods? The IT industry is one that nearly every business needs to survive. During the last recession the business I worked for had it's busiest period and saw huge growth in 2009 onward.

Only two of my clients have been negatively affected by recent events and they're hotel and events based. All other business are busy and have little concern about the future. Yes, there will be many job losses in other industries but if you're in IT and are good at what you do I wouldn't worry at all.

Basher · 7 Jul 2020 at 16:48

Prophet said:
How have you come to the conclusion that there will be less need for IT bods? The IT industry is one that nearly every business needs to survive. During the last recession the business I worked for had it's busiest period and saw huge growth in 2009 onward.

Only two of my clients have been negatively affected by recent events and they're hotel and events based. All other business are busy and have little concern about the future. Yes, there will be many job losses in other industries but if you're in IT and are good at what you do I wouldn't worry at all.

His 'advice' is nonsense. The market for great people in IT at the moment is very strong and super competitive. Great people will not have a problem finding a job. We've got about 10 open reqs just in the UK for IT Sales people with a great OTE.

Rids · 7 Jul 2020 at 20:04

Bald-Eagle22 said:
You really didn’t read my posts now did you .

So Mr Militant you really do have a lot to learn. It was all off the cuff advice of what actually goes on in the real world , are you really that stupid to believe I would broadcast it to my staff that management are making you all redundant as your quoting the rule book . Really !

Yep I’m also going to feel very sorry for them as they are all getting a P45’s in November - I might add followed by mine in January , the company is winding up. Luckily for me I’ll have a nice fat redundancy package after 17 years service - so much so it’s clears my mortgage . With my BTL bringing in a nice income and draw down on my pension in 3 years time I’ll be fine .

No more dealing with little ***** retards ever again that quote the rule book at you , ooo don’t just want to punch them in the face! Remind you of anyone ?

Do us all a favour if you ever go back into the job market, don't go into management. You're clearly not suited for it.

413x · 15 Jul 2020 at 16:34

Have to say I feared same. That jobs in my sector IT would be vulnerable.

But company I joined with (in June!) have taken on so many people.

It is fairing pretty well. Only casualties will be if you work in a sector also vulnerable. But if you're good at your job, should be snapped up quickly