Fury - Wilder thread

ChroniC said:
If boxing skill is more about being able to touch someone without being touched then your right I should watch UFC.
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You can even win rounds without landing a punch. The great Willie Pep did just that against a chap called Jackie Graves .

Scalped from East Side Boxing:
Graves was a southpaw, and perhaps a sportswriter had hinted that it might cause Pep a problem. Or perhaps Willie was just in the mood to show them something they'd never seen before. Whatever his motivation,prior to the start of the bout, Pep would make a prediction to rival any later made by Muhammed Ali; he would win a round without throwing a single punch.

Not only that, but he would tell them up-front just which round to watch for it; round number three. Bert Sugar said of the audacious feat: "Pep tipped off a few friendly sportswriters that he would not throw a punch in anger in the third round.... Pep moved; Pep switched to southpaw, mocking Graves; Pep danced; Pep weaved; Pep spun Graves around and around again; Pep gave head feints, shoulder feints, foot feints, and feint feints. But Pep never landed a punch." The crowd at ringside sat in spellbound awe as Pep put on perhaps the greatest three minute demonstration on the art of boxing ever witnessed. In just 180 seconds he joined the ranks of those who had done some legendary act to fulfill a fearless prediction; the called-shot of Babe Ruth, the "We're gonna win, I guarantee it!" bravado of Joe Namath, and "They all will fall, in the round I call" predictions of Ali.Sportswriter Don Riley, who was ringside and forewarned of Pep's plan for the third round, said, "It was an amazing display of defensive boxing skill so adroit, so cunning, so subtle that the roaring crowd did not notice Pep's tactics were completely without offense. He made Jim Corbett's agility look like a broken down locomotive. He made even Sugar Ray Robinson's fluidity look like cement hardening. Never has boxing seen such perfection!" He had fought the round without throwing a punch, but had he won it? Was his display so mesmerizing that even the keen eyed judges were beguiled? Pep knocked Graves down 9 times, ending the fight in the 8th round via TKO, but it wasn't the victory the ringside press were excited about; it was the score cards of the judges. When the cards were presented, there it was in black and white; Willie Pep had won the third round, the punchless round, on all three cards. The Will o' the Wisp had given boxing another legendary moment.
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Just watched the fight minus the commentary, I thought that Fury was robbed. Only a couple of rounds that were slightly harder to score, but you only had to look at how much Wilder was missing and the good little counters and scoring punches that Fury landed to make your decision.

Wilder looked basic and out of his depth, the only big things of note were a few good jabs and both the knockdowns, I even thought that Fury bossed the remainder of round 9 after he was dropped to make it an even round. Wilder was knackered by the end and couldn't even sustain any attacks.

I genuinely didn't know who was going to win before the fight, I'm actually pretty shocked how good Fury looked, what an immense achievement to come back from where he was. He also showed what heart and determination he has in the last round, was like Larry Holmes when he got floored by Shavers all those years ago.

I also think his trainer needs to take some credit, no major coaching experience and he takes over a broken Fury, whips him back into shape and almost goes to win the title with him in just 3 fights, 1 of which was pretty much a joke fight.
 
Im in 2 minds about the results, Fury had in the bag till that 2nd knock down, he was out cold. Yet broke the laws of the universe to rise up to his feet and not just that he put Wilder in his place for the closing seconds!

He was very fortunate to get the draw but he also should have won. he's gone up in my estimation though that's for sure. Not many people can come out of an over indulged retirement and school someone like that at this level.

Had the score cards been right with Fury getting the win it would have gone down in history books as one of the greatest comebacks.
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Having just watched it again Fury should be happy with the draw tbh, he was still on his knees after 10 seconds in the final round and should have been counted out!
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I watched the fight and agree with you. I believe the ref slightly delayed the round 12 count off when Fury hit the deck, and if he hadn't delayed it, Wilder would have won by TKO. Fury might have been the technically superior fighter but he never got close to putting Wilder down once while Wilder put Fury down twice and very convincingly the second time. When the rematch happens, I think Fury will get knocked out. And I'm not a Wilder fan. And if Fury ever gets to face Joshua, he'll get destroyed.
 
Boxing for entertainment value won yesterday, but as a sporting event....it lost out big time. Disgusting decision by that ref.
Fury was on another level boxing wise. Yeah, a knock to the back of the head floored him the first time and the KO in the 12th. Wilder was gassed by then and that last hit was between 60%-70% power at best which is probably how Tyson was able to get back up again. If wilder had done that in the early rounds he'd have been out for the count. Nobody is getting up from a wilder punch at 100%.

Not sure what to say about the refs. Very strange how all three were very different scores.

What will happen in the rematch? I'm really not sure. Tyson will be in arguably better shape, Wilder may up the tempo early on but at the risk of fatigue? Can tyson carry on dodging those bombs for another 12 rounds.
It'll be interesting either way.

Not sure who I'd prefer to take on AJ though. Wilder or Tyson.
 
Regarding the different scores, it just goes to show how subjective boxing is for fights that go the distance. I think there is a possible argument for having more judges, perhaps 5 and then drop the two outlying scores (i.e. the one that judged it most in favour of fighter A and the one that judged is most in favour of fighter B) before aggregating them. Or something along those lines, I haven't really thought it through, someone else probably has before and come up with a decent proposal.

When the fight was announced I had Wilder as favourite, he was about evens or thereabouts but came in a lot shorter by last month, I was starting to regret not backing him but seems I dodged a bullet anyway.

In terms of who fights who next it's a difficult one, you'd imagine Fury wouldn't want to face AJ first but would prefer the belts be unified and then he can grab them all off whoever wins out of AJ/Wilder in a single bout. And I guess equally Fury is a less attractive option for those guys because he has no belts to bring to the table, although AJ-Fury at Wembley would be a good money-spinner. Ironically the one fight that doesn't really make sense to me right now would be a Wilder-Fury rematch prior to one of them facing AJ.... but I suppose the appeal of that fight would diminish depending on what happens inbetween, the interest in Wilder-Fury II must be at a peak right now so many they would want to strike while the iron is hot. Meh, who knows!
 
Fantastic fight - had everything. Glad I got up at 4am to watch it and well worth the PPV money.

I gave Wilder 3 rounds, the 1st, 9th and 12th. And that was with the 1st very close, could have gone either way. I thought Wilder started the 1st slightly better and was the more aggressive so marginally gave it to him. But from the 2nd round on-wards Fury completely outboxes him. Even in the 9th, bar the knockdown, you could argue Fury wins that round by completely out-boxing him.

How the Mexican judge had Wilder ahead 4-0 is beyond me. And how Fury gets up from that knockdown in the last is beyond words. I couldn't believe what I was seeing! Jesus Christ Resurrection!!?

Some of the comments on here :D
People ain't got a scooby, most likely watch one fight a year. Educate yourself on how boxing works, how it is scored etc. Knockdowns are one small part of boxing.

Not sure Wilder camp will fancy the rematch as you would imagine Fury will be in better shape and more in the groove (all of his team said he took the fight 6 months too early and they didn't really want him to). But it would be an intriguing rematch.
Will Wilder start that slow again?
Will Fury be able to avoid that big right for as long as he did again?
Will Wilder be able to rely on points again if its outside the US?

HW division is really hotting up.
 
HangTime said:
In terms of who fights who next it's a difficult one, you'd imagine Fury wouldn't want to face AJ first but would prefer the belts be unified and then he can grab them all off whoever wins out of AJ/Wilder in a single bout. And I guess equally Fury is a less attractive option for those guys because he has no belts to bring to the table, although AJ-Fury at Wembley would be a good money-spinner. Ironically the one fight that doesn't really make sense to me right now would be a Wilder-Fury rematch prior to one of them facing AJ.... but I suppose the appeal of that fight would diminish depending on what happens inbetween, the interest in Wilder-Fury II must be at a peak right now so many they would want to strike while the iron is hot. Meh, who knows!
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I think the best thing about the outcome of the fight is that it makes the Joshua-Wilder fight more likely than before. If Wilder takes the rematch vs Fury and loses then Joshua fight is no longer the huge money maker it once was (still a big fight though) and he loses his bargaining power in those negotiations too. If he takes the Joshua fight and loses, not a huge amount chances with the Fury rematch - the demand for that fight isn't so much because of the belt being on the line but because of the drama from the first fight and with Fury not holding any belts, he's not going to be a challenger and lose much bargaining power in those negotiations.
 
Some of the comments on here :D
People ain't got a scooby, most likely watch one fight a year. Educate yourself on how boxing works, how it is scored etc. Knockdowns are one small part of boxing.

.
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I don't think this is a fair comment. I didnt agree with the Fury Win and I watch a lot of boxing. I went to Cardiff and watched Aj Parker. Which frankly was one of the worst fights I've ever seen. That was the fault of the referee breaking it up too much.
That said I also know the rules and I don't always agree with them. I dunno why you do but I don't watch boxing to enjoy jab and run anymore than a referee slowing down the action.
I go to watch an exchange of punches that could ultimately end in a knockout. the bedrock, how you achieve that is how well the fight is recieved imo.
I.e if neither throw good punches it would be boring, if one doesn't throw punches and the other does it can be a one sided boringess but if both connect both dodge both knockdown, you have yourself a hell of a fight.
Fury for me the other night was good but he didn't really look like he wanted to drop Wilder, or couldnt. He wanted a points win, a round win and that style whilst I appreciate the skill involved, I don't enjoy watching it. Simple as that really.
 
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When it comes down to the judges scorecards and the fighter is part of Al Haymon's team, you can't realistically expect honest scorecards.

Wilder came within an inch of winning, with that brutal knockout. How on earth Fury got up from that is simply amazing !!! Hats off to the ref for not calling it off. Fury was a dazed mess.

Yes, Fury outboxed Wilder 10 out of the 12 rounds. and yes he was on 'technically' in the lead. But boxing is boxing. Knock outs like that count, especially if the boxer delivering it is part of Al Haymon's team ! You could say Fury is lucky the ref didn't wave his arms when Fury was looking into the stars. In a rematch, it really could go either way. Fury either outboxes him for 12 and Wilder never gets one of his bombs to connect, or its lights out. Neither are probably too keen on meeting each other again.

In a way a draw is kinda fair ! Fury never put Wilder down once.. Yes better punch output and connectivity, but didn't really ever faze Wilder, yet Wilder completely obliterated Fury when he absolutely had to !
 
Supr3me said:
People ain't got a scooby, most likely watch one fight a year. Educate yourself on how boxing works, how it is scored etc. Knockdowns are one small part of boxing.
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People want to see knockouts. If it's just about scores, they might as well wear sparring headgear. Fury got decked twice and looked to be almost knocked the **** out by the 12th, and Wilder was never close to being knocked down, let alone knocked out. If Fury is so skilled, at what point did he knock the stuffing out of Wilder?

It's one thing to say a boxing match is won or lost on points if neither boxer went to the canvas, and that's fair enough. But when one of the fighters is decked twice, quite severely the second time, it makes Fury look the weaker fighter and looks to me like Wilder is the one that will do the same again on a rematch and probably win. Who cares if he 'schooled' Wilder, he was the one that went down.
 
Wilder put out a nice tweet about the fight. Fury didn't do anywhere near enough to take the belt away from the champ and he got put on his arse twice. Would have been a debacle if he had come away with the belt
 
rubberduck said:
Wilder put out a nice tweet about the fight. Fury didn't do anywhere near enough to take the belt away from the champ and he got put on his arse twice. Would have been a debacle if he had come away with the belt
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Is the last sentence your thoughts or Wilders? As utter tosh - I'm not a Fury fan but following the rules of boxing and scoring rounds Fury easily won that fight. Thats not to say I enjoy with how people like Fury/Mayweather fight. But those rounds where Fury got knocked down they were 10 - 9 rounds as not 10 - 8's.

Have a listen to the BBC podcast about the fight quite interesting
 
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