G.Skill trident z neo

tamzzy said:
well yes, unfortunately.

get micron e-die and do it the old fashioned way...yes, i freely admit that b-die is inherently better ram, but it's also double the cost.
what do you get for double the cost? it certainly isn't double the performance that's for sure...hell probably not even an extra 5% performance.
maybe you get smallerlatency numbers and a bigger epeen sure...but i'd rather have the money saved in my back pocket, than in someone else's

£150 for 2x16gb sticks running at 3600 16-18-12-12-32
with tuned settings, the performance difference is minimal
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True, but some people don't want to faff around with adjusting memory timings. After having done that myself on various builds over the space of 30 years and spent days, if not weeks if we're talking about doing the sub-timings also, and even then most BIOS don't expose all the RAM timings so you simply can't adjust them all, after all that I'd much prefer to just pay an extra £50-100 and buy some where all the hard work is already done.
 
Robert896r1 said:
A decent bdie can hit that manually tuned for daily. Limited by your IMC.

I doubt many people on a gene/apex/dark would have much issue tuning c14 3600 on bdie.
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Can it? How many users have you seen running CAS14 3600 with proven stability and decent subs?

Although, with AMD subsets are far laxer, so there is a smokescreen there. We're also talking about 4 DIMMs. If it was as easy as you proclaim, there would be more kits readily available already.
 
Silent_Scone said:
Can it? How many users have you seen running CAS14 3600 with proven stability and decent subs?

Although, with AMD subsets are far laxer, so there is a smokescreen there. We're also talking about 4 DIMMs. If it was as easy as you proclaim, there would be more kits readily available already.
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One of the worst mem oc boards GB z390 pro can do this. This is my daily stable. The original kit is the 8 pack 4000/18-19-19 which is ok:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328891236918493184/620510886251200542/unknown.png

If we're talking AMD, seems like their new IMC is decent for a change. I imagine QVL is going to take a fair bit of time and the issue is more IMC/MB tuning than hoping b-die can run those speeds.

We all know these kits will come with poor trfc, tfaw and other timings loose so the primaries look pretty anyway.
 
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Robert896r1 said:
One of the worst mem oc boards GB z390 pro can do this. This is my daily stable. The original kit is the 8 pack 4000/18-19-19 which is ok:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328891236918493184/620510886251200542/unknown.png

If we're talking AMD, seems like their new IMC is decent for a change. I imagine QVL is going to take a fair bit of time and the issue is more IMC/MB tuning than hoping b-die can run those speeds.

We all know these kits will come with poor trfc, tfaw and other timings loose so the primaries look pretty anyway.
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That's CAS 15, and two DIMMs?
 
Silent_Scone said:
That's CAS 15, and two DIMMs?
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Yes? 4 DIMM's would do better on this board for frequency. It's t-top and this particular board hits a freq wall at 3600mhz with 2 dimm's.

Send me over a gene/apex for a day and happily can show you c14/3600. The point is if that if a trash board like mine can run those timings, then a good board knowing for mem tuning won't be limited by b-die. Doing the QVL so you're not dealing with endless support issue might not be fun though.

Where is this requirement for 4 dimm coming from? Most of the new AMD boards at the high end are daisy? I'm asking as I haven't tracked it that closely.
 
Robert896r1 said:
Yes? 4 DIMM's would do better on this board for frequency. It's t-top and this particular board hit a freq wall at 3600mhz with 2 dimm's.

Send me over a gene/apex for a day and happily can show you c14/3600. The point is if that if a trash board like mine can run those timings, then a good board knowing for mem tuning won't be limited by b-die. Doing the QVL so you're not dealing with endless support issue might not be fun though.

Where is this requirement for 4 dimm's coming from? Most of the new AMD boards at the high end are daisy? I'm asking as I haven't tracked it that closely.
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If you've tracked it this closely, where are all the 4x8GB CAS14 3600 results?

The topology layout isn't synonymous with the fact that modules that run these timings in a higher density configuration are easy to find, or easier to run. Hence why I've asked where the results are.
 
Silent_Scone said:
If you've tracked it this closely, where are all the 4x8GB CAS14 3600 results?

The topology layout isn't synonymous with the fact that modules that run these timings in a higher density configuration are easy to find, or easier to run. Hence why I've asked where the results are.
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You know full well the people going for high end mem aren't 3600mhz tune. /r/Overclocking discord, hwbot, overclock.net. You can find people running daily configs with higher a better overall performance package than C14 3600. I'm personally only doing 3600 because I'm forced to. 3600mhz only became popular on the AMD side due to their IF limitation and need for 1:1 but I'm telling you stuff you already know but are ignoring it.

If Intel had a similar limitation and had been around as long as they have, you're telling me we wouldn't see 3600/14 bins out in the market? is that the position you're taking?

You guys literally make and heavily promote 2 DIMM boards for mem performance so where is this 4x8 requirement coming from?
 
Robert896r1 said:
You know full well the people going for high end mem aren't 3600mhz tune. /r/Overclocking discord, hwbot, overclock.net. You can find people running daily configs with higher a better overall performance package than C14 3600. I'm personally only doing 3600 because I'm forced to. 3600mhz only became popular on the AMD side due to their IF limitation and need for 1:1 but I'm telling you stuff you already know but are ignoring it.

If Intel had a similar limitation and had been around as long as they have, you're telling me we wouldn't see 3600/14 bins out in the market? is that the position you're taking?

You guys literally make and heavily promote 2 DIMM boards for mem performance so where is this 4x8 requirement coming from?
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Because that's what the OP is interested in, and in that density binning is tough. I was simply asking for you to show results, as you claimed it was easy.
 
Robert896r1 said:
A decent bdie can hit that manually tuned for daily. Limited by your IMC.

I doubt many people on a gene/apex/dark would have much issue tuning c14 3600 on bdie.
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I think @Silent_Scone is correct here, would also add that the 3800 C14 kit is running 1T at 1.5v (XMP Stock Voltage).

These bins are right on the limit of what is possible with B-Die across a manufacturing thresh-hold range.

There will be peeps buying multiple kits of these to get 4000 C12 1T.
 
Murphy said:
True, but some people don't want to faff around with adjusting memory timings. After having done that myself on various builds over the space of 30 years and spent days, if not weeks if we're talking about doing the sub-timings also, and even then most BIOS don't expose all the RAM timings so you simply can't adjust them all, after all that I'd much prefer to just pay an extra £50-100 and buy some where all the hard work is already done.
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Well if a 2 min oc is too hard, then maybe some people deserve to get fleeced lol :p
That was how long it took to get my ram to 3600c16
 
tamzzy said:
Well if a 2 min oc is too hard, then maybe some people deserve to get fleeced lol :p
That was how long it took to get my ram to 3600c16
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Oh you little fibber, you. ;)
tamzzy said:
running at 3600mt/s, these are my oc settings below. it's a quick and dirty oc (yet again) as i've only spent 3-4h inclusive of a cursory 20 min stress test.
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Someones made off with your 0.

Seriously though, yea just dropping the CL is pretty quick, excluding all the stability testing, however the CL timing is a pretty small proportion of where the extra performance comes from.

Personally i wouldn't drop the CL without also dropping the other main timings.
 
Murphy said:
Oh you little fibber, you.
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And if you looked at my previous posts, I've also said how I did my 2min dirty overclock with xmp settings ;)
Way to quote something irrelevant :p

tamzzy said:
Mine was a quick and dirty overclock - I care more about playing games than getting 110% from my hardware. With that disclaimer out of the way...
1) enable xmp/docp
2) set soc voltage to 1.1v
3) set memory voltage to 1.4v
4) set vtt to 0.7v
5) set memory multi to 36x
6) set infinity fabric to 1800
7) profit???

I left everything else at auto ;)
Click to expand...
 
tamzzy said:
And if you looked at my previous posts, I've also said how I did my 2min dirty overclock with xmp settings ;)
Way to quote something irrelevant :p
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I was using that as a rhetorical device, not to quote something irrelevant or criticizes, i just wanted to show that 2min was perhaps an slight exaggeration due to stability testing and that to replicate or get close to the sort of performance you'd typically get from preconfigured RAM such as the CL14 Neo it would take a lot longer and even then you probably wouldn't be able to match it.

No offense intended if that's how what i posted came across. :(
 
@Murphy @tamzzy you are both fairly new to this forum so let's see you both solve this like real men over in the SuperPi thread.

Any one caught doing cheap money shot timing screenshots with low CAS but crap subs which blue screen immediately after being taken will be executed at dawn :)
 
Murphy said:
No offense intended if that's how what i posted came across. :(
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Ah. No offense taken lol :P
I have pretty thick skin. Tbf my comment was a throwaway :D

Thing is, even with b-die ram, one would need to tighten the subtimings to get the best out of it, which is the point I'm trying to make (albeit in a roundabout fashion):
£80 ram with a 2min oc to 3600 at xmp settings would perform similarly to £150 b-die ram at xmp settings.
Sure, one could argue that if one tightened both rams' timings, the b-die would come out on top 90% of the time. But then, is the performance differential worth the double cost of b-die? Some would argue it would, but I suspect the majority wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
 
This result is with 4266C17 TridentZ (1.4v). Which is currently tagged in at £600+. https://www.overclockers.co.uk/g.sk...d-channel-kit-f4-4266c17q-32gt-my-11e-gs.html

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