Gay wedding.. Ideas for shots?

[An Exception]

I don't think you get it. If you want a Ford got to a Ford dealership. If you want a Ferrari, go to a ferrari dealership. But don't go to Ford and expect them to be able to offer you a Ferrari.

 

[An Exception]

Also, your post contradicts advice that I am sure you (and certainly almost every wedding tog) have told people when looking for a wedding tog - one should always met with the photography and make sure you get along well and can produce work that you like.

No I said clients should try and meet the tog, if not a phone call as a minimum.
I generally also recommend seeing a full wedding/albums worth of pictures from a single wedding.

Below is a message I got about 10 minutes ago...

"Dear Rhys,

I hope you are having a fab Friday night.
I don't- I am trying to plan a wedding and as you probably know, this is quite stressful; even if none of this is your problem.

I am extremely picky with photographers as I have got to know many, good and bad!!!
I have gone through probably millions already and only liked a couple (oh dear!), anyway...I have seen your portfolio, which is absolutely stunning and the fact that you like topgear helped! haha

So please say you have nothing else to do but spend the day running around with your camera and taking pictures of us and our crazy families and friends!!!

Cheers!"

I don't feel I need to meet this person, she's had a look through my work and what I offer and that's exactly what she want's.
If she was saying, I like some of you're work, but could you do X Y or Z, then I know I wouldn't be right for her and wouldn't sign her up.

Oh and by the way, from 2014 I will be a full time wedding tog, but I won't start signing people up if we are not a good fit.

 

[D.P.]

I don't think you get it. If you want a Ford got to a Ford dealership. If you want a Ferrari, go to a ferrari dealership. But don't go to Ford and expect them to be able to offer you a Ferrari.

I don't think you get it, if I go to a hairdresser to get my hair cut I want them to discuss with me and ask me what I like given their advice.

Your analogy completely fails - what Ford does someone want? No one walks into a Ford dealer and is given a car at random based on the car salesman's desires. People will go to the Ford dealer and look at the different Ford cars and discuss with the sales people what is right for them. I would be shocked to be given a car at random that just had a Ford badge.

The OP doesn't know if he should take photos of the gay couple kissing - that is only something that the couple in question can answer and not something you can deduce form searching with google!


Good luck with your wedding business, exciting times I am sure. I might actually become a weekend warrior next year because I will be going through a huge change in living circumstances which probably means I will have to quite my full time job.

 

[An Exception]

I don't think you get it, if I go to a hairdresser to get my hair cut I want them to discuss with me and ask me what I like given their advice.

Firstly if you know what you want, pick a hair salon you think caters for that style. Don't go to an establishment which specialises in blue rinses if you want a 'trendy' haircut. You can tell them what you want but they probably can't deliver it in a way you want.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Sometimes the money is not worth the trouble it brings if the client is not who right for you.

Watch Sal Cincotta's workshops, he will tell you exactly the same thing, this guy charges 5 figures for weddings so its not pocket change and he would happily turn them down if the client' idea of photos is not what he offers.

His words are "not my client".

I see it as you are working with them, not for them. You have to be comfortable with them as they are comfortable with you.

Sometimes from the get set you know if they are your client, if you are successful you can basically pick and choose, Jeff Ascough shoots 40 a year but he gets many more enquiries than that. If you do it as a side line you can pick and choose. I guess if you are struggling as a business then you would put money first but then you have to ask yourself why are you struggling. Are you pitching your work at the right people, are you pitching it against the right market segment, are your work good enough?

When you are good enough, people will pay for quality, your art and your vision. Here, is the important part, your art and vision. The moment you start deviate from it, you start to lose it.

For the OP, I would shoot it how I would think best would shoot it, shoot it how it fits them both, pitch them your ideas, but if they don't like it then move on to the next idea. But if documentary is your thing, make it your thing, don't bend it for money.

The only time I ask what kind of photos my client want is what is in their formal list, the rest I shoot how I shoot it. Because they have seen my portfolio, they have seen complete works, they know what I do and what they will get. If they ask me to shoot any other way then it would turn out bad, because that is not how I shoot, it would reflect bad on me, bad reputation and bad for business. I may land 1 wedding pay day but could lose many more.

I would not go to Jeff Ascough and ask him to shoot like Jessica Claire, its not what he does. If I want Jessica Claire's work I would go to Jessica Claire.

 

[An Exception]

Good luck with your wedding business, exciting times I am sure. I might actually become a weekend warrior next year because I will be going through a huge change in living circumstances which probably means I will have to quite my full time job.

Best of luck, photography is a tough living. At least with wedding photography you know how much work you have as you book clients a year more in advance.

 

[An Exception]

When you are good enough, people will pay for quality, your art and your vision. Here, is the important part, your art and vision. The moment you start deviate from it, you start to lose it.

This

 

[mrk]

pretty much what i was going to say!

i dont do weddings but this is possibly the number 1 rule every wedding togger should follow ie take pictures in the style and manner in which the people who are getting married want

Actually the opposite holds truer.

For me all my shoots to date have been through word of mouth so every couple has seen my work be it online or in the photo books of other clients who have shown them. That tells me they like my style and will know what to expect and during the consult indeed this is confirmed when they usually say that they just want pictures like what they've seen already.

 

[King Damager]

Watch Sal Cincotta's workshops, he will tell you exactly the same thing, this guy charges 5 figures for weddings so its not pocket change and he would happily turn them down if the client' idea of photos is not what he offers.

Just looked at his website. Jesus Christ, that is some beautiful photography.

kd

 

[hyperst]

I would not go to Jeff Ascough and ask him to shoot like Jessica Claire, its not what he does. If I want Jessica Claire's work I would go to Jessica Claire.

I think that explains it perfectly and what makes a ''photographer'' a ''Professional photographer''

 

[An Exception]

Just looked at his website. Jesus Christ, that is some beautiful photography.

kd

I thought it was good, but far from great. I think togs like Ross Harvey blow that guy out the water, but that may be just my taste.

 

[D.P.]

Sometimes the money is not worth the trouble it brings if the client is not who right for you.

Watch Sal Cincotta's workshops, he will tell you exactly the same thing, this guy charges 5 figures for weddings so its not pocket change and he would happily turn them down if the client' idea of photos is not what he offers.

His words are "not my client".

I see it as you are working with them, not for them. You have to be comfortable with them as they are comfortable with you.

Sometimes from the get set you know if they are your client, if you are successful you can basically pick and choose, Jeff Ascough shoots 40 a year but he gets many more enquiries than that. If you do it as a side line you can pick and choose. I guess if you are struggling as a business then you would put money first but then you have to ask yourself why are you struggling. Are you pitching your work at the right people, are you pitching it against the right market segment, are your work good enough?

When you are good enough, people will pay for quality, your art and your vision. Here, is the important part, your art and vision. The moment you start deviate from it, you start to lose it.

For the OP, I would shoot it how I would think best would shoot it, shoot it how it fits them both, pitch them your ideas, but if they don't like it then move on to the next idea. But if documentary is your thing, make it your thing, don't bend it for money.

The only time I ask what kind of photos my client want is what is in their formal list, the rest I shoot how I shoot it. Because they have seen my portfolio, they have seen complete works, they know what I do and what they will get. If they ask me to shoot any other way then it would turn out bad, because that is not how I shoot, it would reflect bad on me, bad reputation and bad for business. I may land 1 wedding pay day but could lose many more.

I would not go to Jeff Ascough and ask him to shoot like Jessica Claire, its not what he does. If I want Jessica Claire's work I would go to Jessica Claire.

when you shoot weddings at weekends and the money is not critical for paying bills then of course one can be picky with the client. The same goes if you are a really successful full time pro, you can pick and choose clients to work with because you will be booked up anyway.
If you are somewhere in the middle then you might have to be more open to working with different requests. E..g, maybe you are only interested in weddings but someone has a large birthday event they contacted you about. If you need the business then you will have to think whether you will do something different AND you are capable of giving good results.



But anyway, we are going off topic. The point is the OP is shooting a wedding for a gay couple and is wondering whether he should photograph them kissing, etc.. That is really up to the couple to decide, not the photographer. They will be very disappointed if they were expecting quite a few close intimate kissing photos like they saw on the togs website but they get nothing.

 

[D.P.]

Firstly if you know what you want, pick a hair salon you think caters for that style. Don't go to an establishment which specialises in blue rinses if you want a 'trendy' haircut. You can tell them what you want but they probably can't deliver it in a way you want.

well, i never know what to do with my hair as it is always a mess Every hairdresser I have ever been to asks me what I am interested in, I never just sit down and get a #1 all over because that is what the hairdresser prefers.

 

[An Exception]

The point is the OP is shooting a wedding for a gay couple and is wondering whether he should photograph them kissing, etc.. That is really up to the couple to decide, not the photographer. They will be very disappointed if they were expecting quite a few close intimate kissing photos like they saw on the togs website but they get nothing.

This. Op should shoot the wedding as he would otherwise. If Op doesn't feel completely comfortable, then probably should not have accepted the gig.

 

[King Damager]

I thought it was good, but far from great. I think togs like Ross Harvey blow that guy out the water, but that may be just my taste.

I follow Ross on FB. They both do lovely work, and to be honest, if I was getting married tomorrow, despite them having slightly different styles, I'd happily have either shoot the wedding.

Clearly though people have preferences about who they'd rather have shoot a wedding. If (ok, hopefully when) I ever shoot a wedding as the main photographer, my first question to a client would be, 'have you seen my work?' and even perhaps 'how many other people's work have you seen?'

Whilst it isn't something I'd be doing full time, (therefore not making the money a major pressure), if you're shooting someone's wedding the main thing to want is the clients to be happy with your work. If they approach you having seen it, then they know what they're expecting, the style they're getting, and if I have a portfolio of bright colourful images, and they come to me and say, 'we want washed out images' I'm going to tell them to go to a different photographer....

That said, as D.P. has fairly pointed out, not every photographer has that luxury, but if I were either client or tog, that's what I'd be looking for personally.

kd

 

[An Exception]

well, i never know what to do with my hair as it is always a mess Every hairdresser I have ever been to asks me what I am interested in, I never just sit down and get a #1 all over because that is what the hairdresser prefers.

I watched an episode of Mary queen of shops where that basically happened with an ex award winning hairdresser, although it wasn't quite a one all over.

Basically in the 90's he was cutting edge in hair fashion, but things went downhill.

However his business was turned around by a new niche. He now offers low-cost high fashion doo's based on current trends in fashion.
Now girls wanting hair like cheryl cole and are on a budget got to him.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Just looked at his website. Jesus Christ, that is some beautiful photography.

kd

I thought it was good, but far from great. I think togs like Ross Harvey blow that guy out the water, but that may be just my taste.

They are completely different kind of style.

Sal is more grand, his end results "looks" expensive, a sense of class. On a whole, his style is a more classical approach, but classical as in grandeur, not stiff stand and smile.

Ross has a more friendly style, docu and very now, which I love and prefer. Ross uses angles and perspectives that is very original and clever. He also has a thing with birds in his photographs...I don't know how, they always seem to be at the right place at the right time!

They are both good and in different ways, I wouldn't say one blows the other guys out of the water, they both won awards in their own rights.

 

[An Exception]

They are completely different kind of style.

Sal is more grand, his end results "looks" expensive, a sense of class. A little bit more classical.

Ross has a more friendly style, docu and very now, which I love. Ross uses angles and perspectives that is very original and clever.

They are both good and in different ways, I wouldn't say one blows the other guys out of the water, they both won awards in their own rights.

If you look at their blogs, Sal posts a few images from a wedding which are good but I don't have a strong positive feeling towards them, hand on heart I wouldn't book him to shoot my wedding.
Ross on the other hand posts a shed load, and they are all great. The skill, knowledge and creativity it must take to continually produce that kind of consistent body of work is incredible.

For me there is no comparison from this to this.

But I get photography is subjective and as a photographer I know you can't please everyone, but that's just the effect their work has on me.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I don't disagree but if you want 1 print to go in your big £4 million mansion.

Won't you want this?



I am not going to go into who is better, who blows who out of the water etc. Different markets, different clients.

Like I said, I prefer RH, always have, hell, I told him 2 years ago I would hire him if/when the day comes !

Anyway, let's get back on topic, the entire point of that post was not about if RH is better than SC or vice versa. We actually agree for once on a point on how one should pick a photographer on style, nothing more. His name merely pops up because that is also the way he works with his clients.

 

[V F]

I watched an episode of Mary queen of shops where that basically happened with an ex award winning hairdresser, although it wasn't quite a one all over.

Basically in the 90's he was cutting edge in hair fashion, but things went downhill.

However his business was turned around by a new niche. He now offers low-cost high fashion doo's based on current trends in fashion.
Now girls wanting hair like cheryl cole and are on a budget got to him.

Lol! I'm truly speechless.