Oh Jeez, reading some of the ignorant posts here is exasperating sometimes. But then i don't expect any real debate from the usual shills
Poll: General election voting round 4
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Oh Jeez, reading some of the ignorant posts here is exasperating sometimes. But then i don't expect any real debate from the usual shills
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Very true!!
Alan Sked (born 22 August 1947) is Professor of International History at the London School of Economics, and is politically active, opposing Britain's membership of the European Union; he several times stood as a candidate in parliamentary elections, and founded the party now named UK Independence Party.
According to Alan Sked, Farage said "We will never win the ****** vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us" after UKIP failed to make a significant impact in the 1997 general election. Sked has been strongly opposed to the party's leadership since the late 1990s, and the quotation cannot be verified independently.
http://icyapril.com/post/57264351405/things-you-should-know-before-you-vote-ukip
Furthermore, unless you support even tax across all wage bands, then why would you vote for UKIP? The policy may have gone but what kind of insane people would write that?
UKIP are a pressure group, nothing more. If people merely want us out the EU ASAP then a one off vote for a pressure group that will disband after, is perhaps fair enough. Those who back it as though its a real political party that will be their choice for the rest of like need to detail policies that they really like, and statistically how it will actually improve their life...
According to Alan Sked, Farage said "We will never win the ****** vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us" after UKIP failed to make a significant impact in the 1997 general election. Sked has been strongly opposed to the party's leadership since the late 1990s, and the quotation cannot be verified independently.
http://icyapril.com/post/57264351405/things-you-should-know-before-you-vote-ukip
Furthermore, unless you support even tax across all wage bands, then why would you vote for UKIP? The policy may have gone but what kind of insane people would write that?
UKIP are a pressure group, nothing more. If people merely want us out the EU ASAP then a one off vote for a pressure group that will disband after, is perhaps fair enough. Those who back it as though its a real political party that will be their choice for the rest of like need to detail policies that they really like, and statistically how it will actually improve their life...
Soldato
Has this turned into the is ukip racist thread
As far as i'm aware, yes
But people get the choice. With many PR system that choice is removed and the parties choose who would be selected to fill seats, and even the other system still rely on the fact that the party s putitng forward ccandiates, exactly like FPTP.
With PR you have a whole load of added complexity, e.g. if you use a party list then there load sof choices on implementation: e.g.:
So which is the fair system, answer is there is non because it is provably impossible to have a fair voting system. All you can really do is choose where the bias is, who it favors etc. E.g. under the German PR system the SNP might not get a single seat because their vote i less than the threshold, so how can that be described where in almost every region of Scotland the majority of people want the SNP in power over anyone else and yet they don't see a single MP!
No surprise really.
Soldato
My younger self would be aghast, but probably going to hold my nose and vote Tory. My natural inclination is Liberal.
You claimed FPTP was better in terms of candidate selection, when it's evidently not given our current system is often a joke and the public has no choice in who stands, then with PR you can easily have a system like open primaries where the public choose who gets on the list, then which party they vote for. You're wrong on this point - why can you never accept that? You're like a Castiel dupe account, or something.
The point is there is a myriad of PR methods used, so we can pick and choose the elements we want. With your SNP example - where you're either desperately clutching at straws, or are demonstrating a seriously poor understanding - we'd probably have regions within Scotland, or Scotland as a massive region (less desirable for a UK Parliamentary election), so say the SNP get 55% of the vote in Scotland, they'd get 55% of the MPs. It wouldn't be a problem that nationally they poll more like 3.5%.
I can accept that there are some advantages to PR, why can't you accept there are also disadvantages to PR and advantages to FPTP?
With the SNP you just raise the important issue, would the threshold be regional or national? I believe in Germany it is national and thus the SNP would get zero seats.
I've never said one is absolutely better than the other. Clearly there are pros and cons with each. I was saying that the specific claim you made about candidate selection was wrong. It's simple.
They don't have a pure national system of PR. They have a mixed member system. Under the German system the SNP would not get zero seats - nowhere near. They'd get a shed load of seats. Again highlighting how much you're clutching at straws and are debating about something you don't know about.
So, the German example was wrong. How about the Turkey 2002 vote where nearly half the votes were thrown out because the parties didn't hit the requisite threshold.
You seem to think I don't like PR or think FPTP is better, which are are both wrong. I think there are pros and cons to each. I don't see changing the voting system is the biggest issue though. PR doesn't resolve the electorate biases, doesn't remove the political parties and their short termed policies pandering to the uneducated. Removing political parties and fixed term governance would be a big step forwards.
Point out where I was wrong, apart from the hypothetical example where I used Germany incorrectly?
PR doesn't necessarily provide any better selection of candidates (only some forms of it), and it is not like you couldn't employ a variant of open primaries for FPTP.
Ok folks, fifth and final time is here. Apologies if you were in the middle of any conversations but please continue any discussion in the new thread. 
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