Poll: General election voting round 5 (final one)

[scorza]

The SNP will soon have to face the reality of a simple choice.

Either they vote in support of Labour without getting a bean in return, we have conservative government or we have another election.

If only it were that simple, David "cowardly" Cameron is now saying that he'll squat in Downing Street unless Labour have more seats than the Tories, on the grounds that the party that finishes second forming government wouldn't be legitimate and therefore couldn't command the confidence of parliament. If he wins that argument and the polls are correct then it's either a Conservative government or another election

 

[PlacidCasual]

It has barely been discussed on this board or in the MSM but Labour are proposing the most expensive ill thought out manifesto commitment of any party since the last Labour government.

Decarbonise electricity production by 2030.

As an engineer it is my opinion that this is utterly barmy. The capital investment necessary to achieve this is mind boggling. The competitiveness implications of its affect on energy prices are hard to get your head around, but any energy intesive industry will be leaving the country removing skilled well paid jobs. Yet there has barely been a murmur about this economic sucide pact.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Sorry doube post was trying to edit a spelling mistake

 

[cupidstunt]

https://youtu.be/V5vDTbxnMXc

Get rid of this carousel of fools.

How many more times will everyone be disappointed with their vote when you find your chosen party gets in and then reneges on just about every policy that you voted them in for.

And everyone seems to forget THE single most important part of this election, immigration.
Think that sounds stupid ? have a look at Sweden. It will come here.

 

[elmarko]

Of course it matters. They were not in power they can't do what ever they want.
The alternative was LD have no power and introduce zero policies. They've done far more in the last few years than they have done in all time before.
So no it's not harsh, most LD voters are being stupid over what has happened.

The Liberal Democrats sacrificed a number of policies to go ones they deemed more important through.

If you only voted for them for the policies they sacrificed & further still still want them implemented, why would you vote for them knowing where they fit onto the priority list?. Looking forward the question to the voters should be "Which political party is most likely to enact the policy changes we voted for (the Lib-Dems) in the last election" - in this election it appears that a majority of them believe this to be Labour.

While you may not agree with them, it's not stupid. In this election a Labour/Lib-dem coalition is likely to get a significantly higher number of Lib-dem polices in - hell even a Labour majority government (due to a number of policy similarities) is likely to get more of them in than them playing second fiddle to a a fundamentally ideologically different party.

 

[Glaucus]

They can't just enact them, that's the whole point. They hardly renegaded, they weren't in power. Most people don't vote for one single policy but a general sense of the party. In that case LD have done very well for the weight they have.
So it's still stupid.

 

[Mr Jack]

So you would rather they had zero say and introduce zero policies.

No, I'd have rather they'd acted as a party of the centre-left like they claimed to be.

It would have gone back to a general election and LD wouldn't have got anything in. Being in a coalition means compromise, and LD got a hell of a lot in.

They got a few policies that the Tories liked in; and in return they propped up what has been an almost pure Tory government. The trivial amount of blocked Tory policies hardly counts for anything since the Tories wouldn't have been able to get them anyway.

The most meaningful thing they got was a few ministerial positions.

 

[Tunney]

It has barely been discussed on this board or in the MSM but Labour are proposing the most expensive ill thought out manifesto commitment of any party since the last Labour government.

Decarbonise electricity production by 2030.

As an engineer it is my opinion that this is utterly barmy. The capital investment necessary to achieve this is mind boggling. The competitiveness implications of its affect on energy prices are hard to get your head around, but any energy intesive industry will be leaving the country removing skilled well paid jobs. Yet there has barely been a murmur about this economic sucide pact.

Have you seen what Germany has been doing with solar power? Very impressive and the technology is only going to improve. If Britain cares about its economy, it should be skating to where the puck is going.

 

[Mr Jack]

And everyone seems to forget THE single most important part of this election, immigration.

Immigration is really, really not the most important issue facing this country.

Think that sounds stupid ? have a look at Sweden. It will come here.

Yeah, who'd want to be like Sweden?

 

[Glaucus]

No, I'd have rather they'd acted as a party of the centre-left like they claimed to be.



They got a few policies that the Tories liked in; and in return they propped up what has been an almost pure Tory government. The trivial amount of blocked Tory policies hardly counts for anything since the Tories wouldn't have been able to get them anyway.

The most meaningful thing they got was a few ministerial positions.

Rofl, a few policies Tories liked in. I'm sure as hell Tories didn't like a fair few things they introduced, but did in return for support on some of the Tory stuff.
You know how a coalition works.

 

[AGD]

Lots of nonsense being banded around by Cameron about a possible Labour government lacking legitimacy. Pretty desperate really.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Have you seen what Germany has been doing with solar power? Very impressive and the technology is only going to improve. If Britain cares about its economy, it should be skating to where the puck is going.

Germany's solar revolution has been extremely costly and has showed massive intellectual dishonesty. I say that because they use their links to other European countries to balance their grid, effectively paying others to pollute on their behalf or bail them out. It has also destroyed the incumbent majors whom would otherwise be capable of delivering more rational investment programmes. If you're a German pensioner you wouldn't be too happy either because large parts of your previously safe investments reliable energy are worth a fraction of what they were 5 years ago and it's your taxes that made it that way.

If the Uk had acted as rashly as Germany we would have suffered many blackouts in the last 5 years without any doubt.

 

[scorza]

It has barely been discussed on this board or in the MSM but Labour are proposing the most expensive ill thought out manifesto commitment of any party since the last Labour government.

Decarbonise electricity production by 2030.

As an engineer it is my opinion that this is utterly barmy. The capital investment necessary to achieve this is mind boggling. The competitiveness implications of its affect on energy prices are hard to get your head around, but any energy intesive industry will be leaving the country removing skilled well paid jobs. Yet there has barely been a murmur about this economic sucide pact.

Any more info on this commitment because "Decarbonise electricity production by 2030" is so vague to be meaningless. At minimum I expect this could simply mean shutting down all old coal fired power stations.

As Tunney points out, Germany are the poster-childs for this (as usual) - people here said they were mad and would never reach their targets for renewable energy but they did and have a target of 50-60% of their energy to come from renewable sources by 2035.

 

[Glaucus]

. I say that because they use their links to other European countries to balance their grid, effectively paying others to pollute on their behalf or bail them out. .

Give them time, this will be massively reduced in a few years, when they finish building their high voltage network to transfer power around the country efficiently.
It's not good enough just looking at where they are now and saying such thing, they know it's an issue but are building solutions.

In the 2020s Germany are going to be sitting pretty with an even bigger economy due to such policies.


And decarbonise could just be buying carbon tokens and trees. As above, is there any actual details to it. Or just more ill thought out nonsense with no actual plan by labour and other parties.

 

[cupidstunt]

Immigration is really, really not the most important issue facing this country.



Yeah, who'd want to be like Sweden?

https://youtu.be/RZsvdg1dkJ4

I dont want this country to endure what is happening in Sweden due to open door immigration, which is what we have.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Any more info on this commitment because "Decarbonise electricity production by 2030" is so vague to be meaningless. At minimum I expect this could simply mean shutting down all old coal fired power stations.

As Tunney points out, Germany are the poster-childs for this (as usual) - people here said they were mad and would never reach their targets for renewable energy but they did and have a target of 50-60% of their energy to come from renewable sources by 2035.

From memory and forgive me if I'm wrong it means 5% of 1990 levels. You would have to close every lareg fossil fuel station or fit carbon capture and storage.

Given the low load factors of renewable the amout of storage required, for which no practical technology exists, is phenomenal. If we went down a nuke and reewable route. Apart from sizewell B all existng nuclear powerstations are expected to be closed by 2030.

The amount of new capacity required is frightening. If it was all gas it would be quite achievable so long as CCS isn't required. Anything that needs CCS will be eyewateringly expensive in capital and revenue costs.

Germany reached their target but required support from the grids of all their neighbours to support them. Only Germany in their geographic location could pull that trick. Relying very heavily on french nuclear energy at night at the same time they are closing thier own.

 

[PlacidCasual]

And decarbonise could just be buying carbon tokens and trees. As above, is there any actual details to it. Or just more ill thought out nonsense with no actual plan by labour and other parties.

Buying carbon tokens is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets, you're relying on China making efficiency improvements but conveniently ignoring the fact they were building the equivalent of our national capacity in coal stations each year for a decade.

edit: and I don't see what value high voltage networks provide its a generation issue not a distribution one. They've managed to distribute energy effectively for 50 years.

 

[elmarko]

It has barely been discussed on this board or in the MSM but Labour are proposing the most expensive ill thought out manifesto commitment of any party since the last Labour government.

Decarbonise electricity production by 2030.

As an engineer it is my opinion that this is utterly barmy. The capital investment necessary to achieve this is mind boggling. The competitiveness implications of its affect on energy prices are hard to get your head around, but any energy intesive industry will be leaving the country removing skilled well paid jobs. Yet there has barely been a murmur about this economic sucide pact.

Really it should be nationalised & I say that as somebody who works in the energy private sector & has worked with generation & trading. The economic impact is somewhat meaningless in comparison to the potential environmental risks of doing nothing.

Removing carbon from generation is something which a number of nations need to make the first steps to lead the rest, as mentioned before - Germany is already ahead of the game on this.

 

[Mr Jack]

I dont want this country to endure what is happening in Sweden due to open door immigration, which is what we have.

Perhaps you'd like to use your own words and some reputable sources. I'm not watching a YouTube video.

Sweden is doing pretty well by all metrics I can see; and was a very pleasant country last I saw. What's so bad?

 

[scorza]

Germany reached their target but required support from the grids of all their neighbours to support them. Only Germany in their geographic location could pull that trick. Relying very heavily on french nuclear energy at night at the same time they are closing thier own.

Just on this point, I thought I read somewhere that plans were afoot to build an interconnector to the Dutch grid, and possibly the Irish one as well. We already have an interconnector to the French grid and the Scottish grid (which is separate to England and Wales'). It shouldn't be a surprise to know that England and Wales is a net importer of energy. Yes achieving this "commitment" by importing carbonised energy from abroad is disingenuous but what do you expect from politicians?