German Grand Prix 2010, Hockenheimring Circuit - Race 11/19

[Glaucus]

Hockenheim, 23-25 July

Friday 23 July
Practice one: 0855-1035, BBC Red Button/online
Practice two: 1255-1435, BBC Red Button/online

Saturday 24 July
Practice three: 0955-1105, BBC Red Button/online
Qualifying: 1210-1420, BBC One/online and BBC Radio 5 live sport extra/online

Sunday 25 July
Race: 1210-1515, BBC One/online and BBC Radio 5 live/online


Standings:

Track:

Track Diagram

Circuit information

Venue: Hockenheim
Date: Sunday 25 July
Lap length: 2.842 miles
Race laps: 72
2008 winner: Mark Webber (Red Bull) (at the Nurburgring)
First grand prix: 1977
Fascinating fact: The original Hockenheim was a sausage-shaped four-mile track which was basically two long straights through a forest joined by a flat-out right-hander at one end and the current stadium section at the other. Two chicanes were introduced after the great Jim Clark was killed in a Formula Two race in 1968, and a third when Alfa Romeo driver Patrick Depailler lost his life in F1 testing in 1980. The current, much shorter, circuit was introduced in 2001.

Germany preview quotes - Force India, Williams, Renault, Lotus & more
The forthcoming German Grand Prix, round 11 of the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, will take place at Hockenheim, which last featured on the calendar in 2008. The track is 4.574 kilometres long, features 17 corners and is a complex mix of long straights and slow corners. For the teams and drivers it is a firm favourite. Here they discuss their prospects for the weekend ahead...


German - Team Preview
Bridgestone
Cosworth

McLaren
Sauber
Mercedes
Ferrari
Red Bull Not uploaded yet
Williams
Renault Not uploaded yet
Force India
Toro Rosso
Lotus Not uploaded yet
HRT
Virgin Not uploaded yet


Classic F1
Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1986
Short highlights of a dramatic 1986 German Grand Prix won by the Williams of Nelson Piquet, which ended with Alain Prost trying to push his McLaren over the finish line after running out of fuel on the last lap.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1994
Watch short highlights from the 1994 German Grand Prix, which was won by Gerhard Berger from pole after a number of cars crashed out in a chaotic start and Jos Verstappen's Benetton caught fire in the pits at Hockenheim.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1996
Short highlights of the 1996 German Grand Prix, which Damon Hill won for Williams after Benetton driver Gerhard Berger's engine failed with four laps to go.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1997
Highlights of the 1997 German Grand Prix which proved to be Gerhard Berger's final F1 win. Michael Schumacher finished second and gave Giancarlo Fisichella a lift back to the pits after the Italian broke down on the last lap.

Highlights - German Grand Prix 2009


Short highlights of Mark Webber's first Formula 1 win at the 2009 German Grand Prix as team-mate Sebastian Vettel makes it a Red Bull one-two at the Nürburgring.

Technical Changes - British Grand Prix

Weather Forecast

Forecast Summary:

Friday: After heavy rain & showers / thunderstorms develop during Thursday PM, some are expected to continue overnight. Thereafter, low confidence on PPN amounts throughout Friday. Some models have shifted the emphasis of heavy showers away southwards; others keep the day intermittently wet. Middle-ground approach suggests variable cloud cover; some sunny spells; showers likely at times. Chance of PPN 60%. Max 26C. Wind light N.

Saturday: Variable (and at times rather extensive) cloud cover and sunny spells. Showers likely at times. Forecast confidence for PPN amounts currently low; some model output (e.g., Canadian-GM) presents a prospect of intermittent wet weather throughout the day whereas others (e.g., UKMO-GM) offer a largely dry story. Chance of PPN 50%. Max 23C. Wind light-moderate N.

Sunday: Variable cloud cover and sunny spells. Forecast confidence not high but dry conditions seem the most probable outcome for the race. Low to moderate chance of some patchy rain early AM, trending to dry and brighter weather into the race window, however. Chance of PPN 30%. Max 23C. Wind light NW.


News

• McLaren not favouring Lewis Hamilton over Jenson Button
  McLaren will not favour Lewis Hamilton over Jenson Button, despite Hamilton leading the championship from his team-mate at the season's halfway point.
• McLaren sets practice plan for diffuser
  McLaren will use Friday practice at next week’s German Grand Prix to carry out a major test evaluation of its MP4-25 with, and without, the ‘blown diffuser’ as it bids to get the concept race ready as soon as possible.
• McLaren expects to race blown diffuser
  McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh is optimistic the team will be in a position to use its new exhaust-fed diffuser throughout the upcoming German Grand Prix weekend, as it seeks to stem Red Bull’s growing momentum and retain the lead of both championships.
• Diffuser crucial to fighting RBR – Lewis
  Lewis Hamilton is confident McLaren can take on Red Bull on a more level playing field once it gets the complex blown diffuser working well on its MP4-25.
• Button wary of rivals' improvements
  Jenson Button admits the improving pace of McLaren’s rivals in recent weeks has emphasised the importance of the development race in the battle for the title.
• Horner: No 'orders from above' on wing
  Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner has insisted there is no agenda from higher up the company to favour Sebastian Vettel over Mark Webber, as the fall-out from the Silverstone wing row continues.
• Webber: No malice towards Vettel
  Mark Webber says he holds no grudge against Red Bull team-mate Sebastian Vettel over the Silverstone front wing affair, and never held the German responsible for any part of the furore.
• Webber and Red Bull clear the air
  Mark Webber says he and Red Bull have moved on from the favouritism row that engulfed the team at the British Grand Prix and now have a clear understanding on how new parts will be allocated should a similar scenario reoccur.
• Vettel: Schumacher hasn't lost it
  Sebastian Vettel believes criticism of his countryman Michael Schumacher's performances since returning to Formula 1 is unfair.
• 'Angry' Ferrari vow to fight back in Formula 1 battle
  Ferrari say they will use a difficult start to the season as impetus to fight back in the remaining nine races.
• Alonso: Frustration will spur me on
  Fernando Alonso has pledged to turn his frustration at recent stewards' decisions into positive energy that will spur him back into the title fight.
• Schu 'extra motivated' for home return
  Michael Schumacher says he will be “extra motivated” to deliver a strong result for his army of fans and Mercedes when he races on home soil for the first time in four years at Hockenheim next weekend.
• Sauber hopes new diffuser aids progress
  Sauber is looking to turn its recent run of good form into a further points finish at Hockenheim next weekend with the aid of a new upgrade package.
• Di Resta not driving in Germany
  Paul di Resta will miss his customary appearance in a Force India during first practice for the German Grand Prix this weekend.
  Adrian Sutil and Vitantonio Liuzzi will drive their cars in all sessions as the team focus their efforts on coping with the wide difference in tyres Bridgestone are supplying:
• Williams drivers expect tyre challenge
  Williams drivers Rubens Barrichello and Nico Hülkenberg expect the German Grand Prix to be a difficult race for tyre management.
• Kubica: Germany may be tough
  Robert Kubica has confessed he fears Renault may be in for a tough German Grand Prix weekend given the performance improvements beginning made by other teams.
• Lotus gives Fauzy Hockenheim run
  Lotus has handed its test driver Fairuz Fauzy an extra opportunity to drive its car in Friday practice at Hockenheim after his session at Silverstone was heavily disrupted by mechanical problems.
• Hispania axes Chandhok for Germany
  The mysterious driver situation at Hispania Racing has taken a new twist with the announcement that Sakon Yamamoto will now replace Karun Chandhok at the team for next week’s German Grand Prix.
• Chandhok respects Hispania axe
  Karun Chandhok says he respects Hispania’s decision to replace him with Sakon Yamamoto for this weekend’s German Grand Prix.

The track and TV coverage starts

Technical changes German


Europe preview quotes - Virgin, Lotus, Force India, Williams & more

FIA Thursday press conference - Europe


Practice 1

Practice 2

Practice 3

Qaulifying

Race

Standings

 

[Glaucus]

Thanks guys, I'm in and out all weekend, so updates will be as and when. Up leeds for cricket thu/fri/sat (mourning) and out at a kids birthday party on Sunday, so will have to record race.

Lets hope Mclaren get the new parts working right this time

lets hope so and lets hope RBR continue on there screw themselfs over and not capitalising on any weekend.

I hate them almost as much as Ferrari now.

 

[Glaucus]

I don't hate RB, mainly as I have a wager on Webber But prefer Mclaren over them.

I have to have teams I hate and drivers I love. Makes it more interesting.

I don't really like teams, since all tech has been banned, use to love williams in early to mid 90;'s.

And of course who could not like brawn the underdog, but know they sold "out".

 

[Glaucus]

it is extremely unlikely to rain on Sunday especially at race time.

Sunday: Variable cloud cover and sunny spells. Forecast confidence not high but dry conditions seem the most probable outcome for the race. Low to moderate chance of some patchy rain early AM, trending to dry and brighter weather into the race window, however. Chance of PPN 30%. Max 23C. Wind light NW.

 

[Glaucus]

Finally watched qualifying.
Can't believe how fast Ferrari are. 0.002 difference. If that's the same at the next race rbr and Ferrari are neck and neck.

Disappointed by McLarens speed, but still hope, vettle and alonso into the first corner

 

[Glaucus]

Hamilton is not particularly liked in the paddock.

 

[Glaucus]

Yep. Because he is super fast (arguably the fastest), super aggressive and overtakes more than any other driver in F1.
.

don't forget he's had it easy as well, sponsored by mclaren for a long long time and straight into a competitive car.

As well as mistakes like ignoring traffic lights and arguing with a established driver (alonso)

 

[Glaucus]

its helped but you saw what kovalienen was like in a competative car, you still have to be good to win.

The point was, that a lot will be envious of him, due to longterm sponsorship and stepping straight into a winning car. Where they have had to work hard and generally start as a tester or down the field.

 

[Glaucus]

Just finished watching the race, what a disgrace.
We are aware team orders are used, but that was a clear team order with no question. Yet again FIA ignoring it's own rules and being inconsistency.

Either get rid of it or punish.

Just have towait and see if World Motor Sport Council. will have the balls and follow rules./

 

[Glaucus]

I'm like Coulthard, I don't see the big deal. I mean at the end of the day the only person its affected is Massa, ?

What?

It has affected bets
It has affected the sport
It has affected viewers
It has affected the championship

Either it is against the rules or not. Under 39.1 it is clearly against the rules and so has to be dealt with.

To be honest the decision made to fine Ferrari was basically a knee jerk reaction to the pressure to do something about it, as already mentioned, if it wasn't for the lead we wouldn't be discussing it now.

It is knee jerk, but for the other reason. It is clearly against rules and is a knee jerk reaction to not black flag a team.

 

[Glaucus]

Started 2002 when there was a massive public outcry. That is why the rule was implemented.

whether you agree with team orders or not, is pretty much irrelevant. It is against the rules and FIA yet again being inconsistent.

Look what McLaren got for lying to the stewards.

 

[Glaucus]

Totally agree on all 3 accounts.
Why can't FIA just grow a spine, I really thought introducing drivers would help as well as press backlash, but it hasn't. All I want is FIA to follow the rules THEY set out and be consistent with punishments.

Although I think what Renault got was fair ish.

I don't think a team should be killed of, however I do think all management and any one involved should be and if they can find new management/sponsors then they should be allowed to race on probation. If caught in the championship year all points should be stripped. But then the life time ban was overturned, so yet again wrecking the process.

Also going to be away all next weekend, so again there will be no updates on the OP until late Sunday.

 

[Glaucus]

On the contrary. It would that most F1 followers don't seem to know that team-orders exist. The fact that the team order was on blatant display today has taken them totally by surprise and shows just how gullible they were/are.

Not at all, everyone knows team orders happen to some extent. We are also fully aware they are against the rules. Hence team orders are so limited and undercover. It is the same as court of law, fia have to be able to prove team orders, in most cases this is not possible, this one it is very easy.

The fact it was blatant team orders with no punishment is disgraceful.

As I have said it makes no difference what you think, rules are set in place and those rules have been broken in a clear and deliberate way.

The other blatant team orders which were issued this year were in Turkey, where RBR told Webber's engineer to tell Webber to let Vettel through (of course this message was never passed on),

Never aired or publicly stated, so you have no idea if that actually happened, even if that was the correct state of affairs. Again this can not be proven and as such FIA can not take action.

 

[Glaucus]

IMO Ferrari should not be given any punishment,

Why they clearly broke the rules?
something that has not happened this year, despite you banging ion about it. there are appeal courts and a 1001 top paid lawyers. No proof no FIA decisions, something I support. If FIA just start taking action with no evidence it is a vast.


There are many rules in FIA I disagree with, doesn't mean I don't think teams braking those rules in a provable fashion, should not be punished.

What about McLaren, every time Button is pressuring Hamilton, suddenly instructing both drivers - or sometimes only Button - to save fuel? More than a bit of a coincidence there.

Not really, they have said it every race, regardless of JB/LH position. the Merc engine is clearly thirsty and under filled more than other teams.
Also much harder to prove team orders, these are legal courts remember.
Although As I said before any order with regards to fuel should be looked at by the FIA, it would take 10seconds with data to clarify.

 

[Glaucus]

...I'm speechless.

Why?

Do they keep saying that regardless of Postion? Yes
Do team orders exist? Yes
Are any provable (ignoring Ferrari today)? NO


That is the difference, common knowledge and assumption will not stand up to FIA or appeal courts.

Ferrari Messed up in so many ways today. not only the nemourse radio calls we all heard, but the way massa let him passed, don;t even need telemetry to show he lifted off substantially for no reason.

As brundle said before the move, best place would be to let Alfoso hang onto the rear of him and make a mistake passing back markers. As well as saying a hell of a lot less on the radio.

Would we of known what happened, of course, could it be proved = no.

 

[Glaucus]

Yep it certainly looks like this has rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way. People will always be spouting excuses when their team/driver doesn't win in the end, its just the way it is. All this is for them is ammo for that arguement. Most of you aren't even bothered about the team orders themselves only how it was done. If that's the problem then why whine about the stewards/fia/ferrari, Massa and Smedley were the ones that made it so obvious, why not simply be mad at them?
He could have simply said "Push Felipe baby, push!" then have Massa outbrake himself into the hairpin and have Alonso sail up the inside, and we'd have been none the wiser.
.

It makes no difference what team it is.

It has to be provable to take action, why do some of you think the FIA can just decide on circumstantial evidence.

Why do you think FIA should ignore it's own rules?

Maybe Smedly and masa did it on purpose. It was clear neither were happy.

 

[Glaucus]

The fact that it was Ferrari makes all the difference.

.

It makes no difference, I was defending Alosno and Ferrari 2 weeks ago, against the FIA decision. Which latter came out that FIA was right and not harsh.

It doesn't matter why the rule was introduced, the rule is there and it is clear.

To add to my previous, the other instances where there would have been outrage would have been...
Button being asked to swap with Hamilton, or vice versa.
Rosberg being asked to let Schu past.
Webber being asked to let Vettel past.
.

there certainly would be outrage and media attention. It is race and bet fixing. the public just doesn't stand for it and the rules are clear.
It doesn't matter how the sport grew up, or how it was 10 years ago. These are different times and different rules. It is not conventional sports where the rules remain constant.

As DC said, they clearly broke the rules and should be punished, however he does not see team orders as being wrong and hence why he wants the rules to be looked at, and that rule to be removed. But until then they broke a rule and have to face the consequences.

 

[Glaucus]

Very clearly, unfortunately. Smedley obviously didn't want to do it and it reflected in the way he said it.

As did massa with the way he did it.

Even with heated anger, I can not believe two vastly experienced people would do that, unless they want to have FIA and media action.
everyone knows the rules and it would have been discussed before the race and during the race.

 

[Glaucus]

You think Massa should have gone wide onto the grass or something similar to make it look as if Alonso pressured him into a mistake rather than a Barrichello-esque deliberate hand over?

yep or any other way which is not blatant. Although radio is stil damming evidence.

Rules are rules, doesn't matter if you think team orders are right or wrong. Personally I can seeboth sides and don't really care which way, but again rules are rules.


Mclaren and fuel saving is not the same
A) it's in provable
B) they have been saying save fuel at every race, today they told Lewis to save fuel but not button, was that team orders to get button ahead?

Peole also forget we are talking hundreads of millions per team, each with the best lawyers, things have to be provable, ferrar is the only one to make that mistake.

 

[Glaucus]

!00,000 is maximum fine they can give, but still could have given other punishments.

Be interesting to see what WMSC will say, although those usually take months to set up.