not really everything put together makes a very strong case.
You will never get you must move over. This is an as strong a case as FIA will ever get.
German Grand Prix 2010, Hockenheimring Circuit - Race 11/19
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not really everything put together makes a very strong case.
You will never get you must move over. This is an as strong a case as FIA will ever get.
All put together it is a strong case.
You sill not get pull over for your team mate. If Ferrari do get let off as there is not enough evidence, the rule might as well be removed. That is as strong a case as you will ever get.
Yes it could go either way, however FIA have got a strong case. There is some big differences in team radio. we shall see if WMSC accepts that those radio and all the other data together as a whole is acceptable as evidence for team orders.
Of course they had the team radio, the information being given to heiki that Lewis was faster, the same info massa was given and by some miracle Hekki takes it upon himself to move over.
Nice find Cavallino
No, they have radio saying Lewis is faster that is it. Not do you understand message, sorry, so on and so forth. That is a big difference.
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I don't think it is that simple. they have to show that Massa made his own mind up, FIA have to show it was more than that. It could go either way. But this is the best chance FIA will ever get and if that is not enough evidence then the rule should be removed.,
he should have, the difference is the FIA felt there was not enough evidence for team orders.
Two wrongs don't make it right, It is what can be proved, or at least proved to a degree the council is happy with.
It does if the council takes it to mean something else and feels there is ground for punishment.
Don't say anything and the Council has no grounds.
of course there isn't, the difference is bringing a case against team orders, which has to be bigger than the driver. hence team orders.
and possibly other stuff that FIA has access to.
Those radio transmissions are damming though, that is the difference. Yes they can be interpreted in several ways. but it is the way the council interpretates them that is the important bit. The whole picture, everything put together makes it very likely it will be deemed team orders.
I can see this going 3 ways.
1) Ferrari is cleared.
2) Ferrari is fined and WCC points stripped
3) Ferrari is fined, Possible WCC points stripped and rules are clarified and are much stricter, meaning anything obvious is deemed as team orders.
I think no.3 is most likely. maybe a million-10 million fine and rule changes.
I can not see team orders being re-allowed. It might have a better chance if all the teams argued for it, but I can't see that happening. sponsors and viewers don't want team orders. Over the last 10-20 years. everyone must have an equal chance and things must be fair.
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It's not meant to be fair in that sense. however it should be a fair playing field. All teams should have to abide by the same rules and punishments should be consistent.
It is fair for the reason any team can if they can gain the sponsors spend what they want, build a winning car etc.
It is not a same car series and is not meant to be,
Money has a lot to do with it, but hopefully it wont mean klien wont get a chance though. While they are useless it would be wise to try all drivers out, but give the paying one more time in the car.
that's what i would do anyway. make the money and try all drivers out, ready for next year when they might have a chance of fighting someone for a place.
Exactly the point I made earlier, but as it's Ferrari, nobody's going to buy it
It's the fact
A) it happened several years ago
B) FIA did not think it had enough evidence
C) circumstances were different.
Thing is that has happened numerous times and has never been deemed team orders. Cars on different strategies often get let go. Now whether this is down to it not being classed as team orders, or that no evidence of team orders has been give. I am not sure. but I would guess the first.
however 1,2 on same strategy, is definitely team orders. Combined with surrounding radio comms is a very strong case. Regardless of what excuse Ferrari give for those radio comms. it is now down to WMSC to decide if that is enough evidence for team orders and I really hope for clarification.
As I have said several times this season already, if team orders are banned any comms with regards to fuel should be looked at routinely by stewards.
that would be good and would still fit with there going green.
Set a fixed amount of fuel. you have to carry x-litres. Then to encourage efficiency, could just be slashed every few years.
It's all change next year anyway.
trouble is they have already been found guilty, Brundle has a good article.
Clumsy Ferrari expose flaws in team orders rule
Maybe that's unfair but they have a problem now. The $100,000 fine has been applied so the team are officially guilty of breaching the regulations. Surely the World Council can only add to that penalty at their yet-to-be announced hearing.
Rest of the article, basically sums up what I have been saying. That we all know it happens, but this is the first time that it has been provable.
As I said before that is unclear, as I'm not sure that is classed as team orders. Many times team members on different strategies have been released, not once has it been investigated by FIA, which implies that does not count as team orders. As they are not racing each other.
Where a 1,2 on same strategy, with no pit stops left, is certain team orders as they are racing each other.
Not a good move, especially as wmsc hasn't happened yet.
Ferrari boss slams F1 'hypocrisy' after Alonso win
Just like getting other teams data, like McLaren did. You weren't defending them though.
Rules are rules. Pretty much every underhanded thing happens in F1, don't get caught.
Why don't you and all the other teams get the rule removed. Is it because you will losse sponsors and supporters/.
Ferrari boss slams F1 'hypocrisy' after Alonso win
Just like getting other teams data, like McLaren did. You weren't defending them though.
Rules are rules. Pretty much every underhanded thing happens in F1, don't get caught.
Why don't you and all the other teams get the rule removed. Is it because you will losse sponsors and supporters/.
They wont be kicked out, no team would be, as shown with Renault and McLaren.
Doesn't mean they wont get punishment though. I can;'t see how they wont be punished, stewards have already found them guilty and passed them on to wmsc for further action above what the stewards can do.
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I expect it will come down to what the WMSC thing should happen to the rule.
If the rule stands with no alteration I expect points to be striped from constructors.
If rule is clarified or removed, then I expect large fine.
Either way I doubt drivers title will be effected.
That's my guess anyway. But WMSC can pretty much do what ever it wants, so anything could happen.
As there is a to of support from inside the sport for it to be changed, as I said I don't think it will be supporters and sponsors don't like it.
Bernie says order regs need reviewing
Bernie Ecclestone admits a discussion on Formula 1’s team order regulations is needed in wake of the controversy caused by Ferrari at Hockenheim, with the commercial supremo in favour of allowing teams to manage their cars as they see fit.
Then you have pretty much every team boss saying it happens, EJ, DC & brundle all in agreement that team orders are part of F1. Difference is EJ is the only one who want rules to be stuck to.
Bernie says order regs need reviewing
Bernie Ecclestone admits a discussion on Formula 1’s team order regulations is needed in wake of the controversy caused by Ferrari at Hockenheim, with the commercial supremo in favour of allowing teams to manage their cars as they see fit.
Then you have pretty much every team boss saying it happens, EJ, DC & brundle all in agreement that team orders are part of F1. Difference is EJ is the only one who want rules to be stuck to.
yep