German Grand Prix 2010, Hockenheimring Circuit - Race 11/19

dannyjo22 said:
The only driver they could strip of points would be massa, how would that be fair. Besides they have already set a precedent with Hamilton of not punishing the driver for a error made by the team or cheating.

.
Click to expand...

Of course it would be fair, he and the team broke the rules.

Hamilton was stripped of hid points, or are you talking about a diffrent incident.

They could also strip alonso as he is part of the team, as well as ban Ferrari for several races.
 
sunama said:
When they genuinely want their drivers to conserve fuel, they actually give them a setting, which they have to press on their steering wheel. I think today, Hamilton's engineer said that he has to go on "G2" or something along those lines.

.
Click to expand...

Why do you talk so much rubbish. They gave no such setting today. they said save fuel, or you will have to use G8 at the end of the race. However no setting was given to conserve fuel.

It's this gullibility which is frustrating me...I can't believe that people can be so simple.
Click to expand...

It is not Gullibility, it is you bending the fact and it not being PROVABLE, something Ferrari was not, It is very provable what was said and a case to be made.
 
Last edited:
Maybe, but he keeps saying the same things, even when they have been shown to be wrong, it gets very annoying.

No setting was given for Hamilton to switch to and no settings have been given in other races. But he maintains it's all team orders.

Just like he maintains he knows exactly what happened between Webber and vettle, despite no radio info or public speakings. yet he knows exactly what happened and he thinks he can prove it.

We all might speculate what happened, but it is not provable and no certain.
 
Cavallino said:
I thought Hamilton was instructed during the race to switch to G8 or something and save some fuel? At least thats what I tohught.
Click to expand...

Nope, as above save fuel or we will have to use a diffrent engine map. As DC said fuel can be saved by not riding accelerator and brake at same time, slightly less revs etc.
 
^
they can strip points but race results stand, I'm pretty sure that has happened before.


A race ban or striped of points wool be good, either it has to be enforced or you accept it is a team sport and remove the rule. We can't have the rule and not enforce it. Had to laugh at DC going those who bet should realise they can losse. They do but the odds and bets are based on the rules of the sport and those rules where blatantly broken.
 
The stewards deemed they made team orders and brung the sport into dissrepute. One article did say that 100000 was the max stewards could impose allrhpugh wmsc can give pretty much any fine they want or ban, exclude, strip points.

Although I can't find the exact wording of rule or punishment to confirm.
 
Sevral of us have said that, allrhpugh they need to repeat this speed on a high speed track as well before we know for sure. But it does certainly look like they are know equal fastest down to the same thousdanths of a second.
 
Cavallino said:
I find it comical that everyone has jumped on the Anti-Ferrari bandwagon when teams in the past have been blatantly conducting team orders, regardless of whether it was more subdued or covertly implemented. Regardless of whether they were fighting for the championship or whether they were right at the back. Just funny.
Click to expand...

A) team orders use to be legal.
B) no other team has broken team orders. (well they have but it's unprovable)
 
Except vettle did not have a bigger enough speed advantage to over take, there was little speed diffrence and massa was more or less matching alonso.

While the rule is there you have to follow it.
 
2002 it was not illegal. If guilty I expect a much larger fine and wcc points striped, I can't see a ban. If they are lucky they might get away with it as no "order" was given, but so obvious and telemetry.
 
I'd say they will fine them or remove them from the constructors which won't bother them because they won't win it.
Click to expand...

Do you even think?
Of course they will care, last team in the pits next year or at least almost at the back, no money, problems with sponsors and so on.
 
dannyjo22 said:
There is not one single post I can see about Team orders in the thread, people are more worried about the BMW fuel temp and those cars being excluded to give the title to Hamilton :D
Click to expand...

Becuase there was no evidence of team orders, it was carried out correctlly.

Good article here from 2008 on team orders


F1’s unwritten rules: team orders edition
To spot the occasions where teams have influenced race outcomes in the past 12 months you don’t need to be a cynic – just a realist.

Ferrari shuffled Felipe Massa out of Kimi Raikkonen’s path at Interlagos last year to deliver the drivers’ championship to his team mate; Nick Heidfeld presented Robert Kubica with no resistance at Montreal this year, allowing Kubica to score the team’s maiden victory; Heikki Kovalainen refrained from racing Lewis Hamilton at Hockenheim in the closing stages.

A brutally tough interpretation of article 39.1 could brand any of these decisions as interference with a race result.

But, as we discussed a few weeks ago, unwritten rules play just as big a role in how F1 works. In the case of team orders, teams can get away with a lot of things you might expect Article 39.1 to prevent. They would have to be quite blatant to get caught and punished.

Why did the stewards leave McLaren, Ferrari and BMW alone in these examples? Probably because there was no radio communication between team and driver beforehand giving an instruction, as we heard at Austria in 2002 (“Let Michael past for the championship, Rubens, please” – Jean Todt.) Presumably the teams now tell their drivers beforehand what is expected of them in these situations.

At Interlagos last year, Massa was out of the championship running and was surely told by the team before the race that if he could guarantee the championship for Raikkonen by moving aside he must do it. In the event, with a comfortable one-two, Ferrari were able to take the most low-profile way of pulling the old switcheroo – doing it via the pit stops.

Similarly it makes sense for teams not to allow their drivers to hold each other up when the following car is much faster than the leading one – as was the case for BMW and McLaren this year in the other examples above.
Click to expand...
 
The diffrence was, other teams did it in a way which is not obvious and not provable. Ferrari on the other hand have. That is a major diffrence.
 
dannyjo22 said:
The double standards in all this I find frankly bemusing. That it's somehow ok when the title is at stake.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep saying this, it is not double standards one is blatant and I expect provable. Telemetry combined with radio comms. All the others since 2002 haven't been.
 
did they have all the other team radio though?

It really is all the team radio put together that is so damming. if they had simply said Alonso is faster. Then There is no chance they could prove team orders.
As it stands I think they have a very good case for team orders.
 
Last edited:
Cavallino said:
Does it matter though? Do you need team radio to discern if yesterday was team orders? It blatantly was with or without the radio.
Click to expand...

yes provability

It really is all the team radio put together that is so damming. if they had simply said Alonso is faster. Then There is no chance they could prove team orders.
As it stands I think they have a very good case for team orders.
Click to expand...


Everyone knows team orders exist, but FIA can't prove it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom