German Grand Prix 2012, Hockenheim - Race 10/20

sunama · 23 Jul 2012 at 22:42

Mr Men said:
You keep saying about the summer break and Red Bull come back winning all...2010 after the break Lewis won a race and Alonso won the next 2.

2010: I'll give you that.

Mr Men said:
2011 Seb won first 3 but not by any bigger margin than he was winning before the break when winning 6 out of 11 races so no idea why you seem to think its some given right that Red Bull will win all after the break.

In 2011, before the break, Vettel's results were: 2-4-2.
After the break: his results were: 1-1-1.

Mr Men · 23 Jul 2012 at 22:45

And he won 6 of the races before the break, and like I said he never came back winning by a big margin, McLaren were still close to them.

Skeeter · 24 Jul 2012 at 09:55

Emlyn_Dewar said:
We heard it on the commentary during the last couple of laps what the punishment could be. None of these were "swap the cars places around in the standings".

Yes it was, "a time penalty of any amount". They could have handed a 5 second penalty.

Mr Men · 24 Jul 2012 at 10:23

So you want the FIA to make up new rules as they go? yet you have often slated them for being inconsistent?

Duke · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:06

Sebastian Vettel's German Grand Prix penalty came after FIA clarified track etiquette rules at Silverstone - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101474

Formula 1 drivers were warned specifically about increased scrutiny on anyone gaining an advantage by leaving the track, before Sebastian Vettel's controversial move on Jenson Button at the German Grand Prix.

Vettel grabbed second place from Button on the penultimate lap at Hockenheim after using the run-off area at the exit of the hairpin to drive past his McLaren rival.

That incident was investigated by the race stewards, who deemed that Vettel was in breach of the rules for not using the track "at all times" - and he was given a 20-second time penalty in lieu of a drive-through for his actions.

The decision, which dropped Vettel to fifth in the race results, caused some controversy because in other situations – like Lewis Hamilton overtaking Nico Rosberg off track in Bahrain, a move the officials ruled was ultimately completed on track under braking – drivers have escaped punishment. But it is understood that the stewards were reacting to the latest clarification of the rules that was issued at the British GP.

Prior to the race at Silverstone, F1 race director Charlie Whiting sent a note to all teams and race stewards making it clear that while the regulations state no driver can gain an advantage by leaving the track, race stewards would be encouraged to use their discretion in determining the extent of any benefit.

Skeeter · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:13

Sets a bit of a worrying presidence...

What happens at Monza when people start overshooting chicanes like they always do. Are the FIA going to slap a drive through on them straight away before they even get a chance to give the place back?

Driver who overshoots: "Do I have to give the place back"
FIA: "Drive through penalty"
Driver: "Whaaaaaaaa?"

Mr Men · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:16

If people cut the chicane to overtake then they know to give it back and are told to do so by their team. FIA only investigates if the team does not act correctly and then the stewards make a decision.

Duke · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:33

Thought this photo was great -

Skeeter · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:04

arknor · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:24

sunama said:
I think that this season will be a close one, unless Ferrari give Alonso a car which is at least as good as the RBR. If that happens. Its game over.

it pretty much is as good as the rbr anyway.

i dont know why people still think the ferrari is a dog when its far from it now.

Emlyn_Dewar · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:29

Skeeter said:
Sets a bit of a worrying presidence...

What happens at Monza when people start overshooting chicanes like they always do. Are the FIA going to slap a drive through on them straight away before they even get a chance to give the place back?

Driver who overshoots: "Do I have to give the place back"
FIA: "Drive through penalty"
Driver: "Whaaaaaaaa?"

They'll have long enough for the team to bother engaging their brains, unless they want to gamble on an FIA decision again.
I don't see what you find so difficult to understand about the whole thing.

Vettel makes off-track move near the end of race, does not give position back, is suitably punished for it. Win.
This is one of the rare times, the FIA have got it absolutely spot on.

Edit: Pretty sure we had to see at least one place given back at Monza last year for the chicane thing? (Year before maybe?)

Mr Men · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:32

arknor said:
it pretty much is as good as the rbr anyway.

i dont know why people still think the ferrari is a dog when its far from it now.

Could be better if Seb loses his special engine maps to help him

any coincidence that with this new map then Seb moves up ahead of Webber....seems he really needs it to perform.

Cold Fusion · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:42

Anyone know when this engine map came in? At Valencia everyone was commenting on how quick the Red Bull was compared to others and I wouldnt be suprised if this workaround was introduced then or beforehand.

On Vettels' overtake I think the FIA should be praised for getting the decision absolutely right. He gained and advantage by going off track and not lifting off and failed to give the place back before he crossed the line (although I think its the teams responsibility to tell the driver to give the spot back not the driver to make that decision).

If it happened at the start of the race he would have got a Drive Through Penalty with probably a much worse finishing position than 5th (due to traffic)

smr · 24 Jul 2012 at 14:34

MooMoo444 · 24 Jul 2012 at 14:36

Damn thats one fine pit stop

mattyg · 24 Jul 2012 at 14:40

smr said:

Seems you can get quicker than a kwik fit fitter

smr · 24 Jul 2012 at 14:50

MooMoo444 said:
Damn thats one fine pit stop

mattyg said:
Seems you can get quicker than a kwik fit fitter

ShakenNstirred · 24 Jul 2012 at 15:02

Skeeter said:
Sets a bit of a worrying presidence...

What happens at Monza when people start overshooting chicanes like they always do. Are the FIA going to slap a drive through on them straight away before they even get a chance to give the place back?

Driver who overshoots: "Do I have to give the place back"
FIA: "Drive through penalty"
Driver: "Whaaaaaaaa?"

set no presidence at all..
no there not
as everyones said lol he didnt give the place back when he knew he should
there wasnt enough time for them to tell the team to make him, so it was given to him after the race its really that simple

this is getting boring now as your just going over n over it
its done and it was fair, drivers know they have to drive within the white lines of a track, stick to them and you will never get in this problem in the first place, again its that simple lol

ps3ud0 · 24 Jul 2012 at 15:13

Completely agree, the previous definition that included discretion was always going to cause issues in interpretation or possible bias, the new definition sets a clear and obvious statement regards what the drivers should be doing if it wasnt clear in the first place...

ps3ud0 :cool:

JeditOjanen · 24 Jul 2012 at 15:15

Skeeter said:
Sets a bit of a worrying presidence...

What happens at Monza when people start overshooting chicanes like they always do. Are the FIA going to slap a drive through on them straight away before they even get a chance to give the place back?

Driver who overshoots: "Do I have to give the place back"
FIA: "Drive through penalty"
Driver: "Whaaaaaaaa?"

You're talking a load of Sky commentary there, Skeeter. Vettel wasn't penalised during the race because the incident happened less than five laps from the end. He had a lap and a half to give the position back and didn't. There is no precedent being set; this has happened many times before.