German Grand Prix 2012, Hockenheim - Race 10/20

Mr Men said:
If his floor was so badly damaged with the puncture then he should have retired when pitting for a new tyre, but he never, he went on to set FL, overtake Vettel all with a car that was so damaged it needed to retire after Seb and Alonso pitted, ok then :) They retired the car after trying to interfere to help Jenson.

If you are suggesting anyone a lap down should retire then that's a good discussion, he could have stayed behind Seb until he pitted which we all knew was soon instead of interfering, then he would not be a lap down and then if a SC happened it would bring him back into the pack.
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Hi, like the stewards wouldn't see it, I bet they did look and I bet they listened to all of the radio traffice between the pits and Hamilton/Button just to make sure?
Chris
 
His radio told him to overtake Seb and Alonso if he could, it's on the transcript at McLaren F1. His comments also said he had nothing to lose but not get in Jenson's way :)
 
Well the FIA now has to make a definite decision (as if they hadn't already) and make a complete ban of "Off throttle blowing" or the other teams will quite rightly start blowing theirs again.

So... As I think it's a foregone conclusion that RB will have to stop using OTB I wonder if RB will be a mid field runner again as they were earlier this year ?

[Edit]

Yeah I got the missus to record the highlights and then had to avoid the News etc all night last night.


Go Go JB
 
Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
F1 tech meeting ends with no decision on whether there will be a rule clarification on Red Bull controversy pre-Hungary. More soon
 
Skeeter said:
20 seconds is a retrospective drive through. Drivers do not get a drive through for illegal overtakes, they are just requested to give the place back.

Do we know if Vettel was told to give the place back but ignored it? If he did that then a drivethrough was justified. But if it was just that the FIA took 2 laps to decide if it was an illegal overtake, buy which point it was too late, then that's the FIAs fault.
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It was the hairpin on the penultimate lap, which would allow McLaren and the FIA just under 2 minutes to make the complaint, reach a decision and inform Red Bull.

Vettel knew what he was doing. If in doubt he should have handed the place back and bagged a safe 3rd. Perhaps next time he'll use his head. The part of the podium interview when Vettel said to Lauda that Button hadn't complained to him was just cringeworthy. Part of the penalty is a deterrent, and hopefully it'll work. Vettel was also pushing the track limits all day at the first corner and at the entrance to the stadium section.
 
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Always a good laugh to read the complaining here.
My 2p worth...

Vettel deserved his penalty, he knew what he was doing and I don't think anyone was buying his excuse. A load of people moaning about the FIA, but they gave out a suitable penalty. You can't just drive an imaginary track layout because your car is faster...
Good drive from Button.
Well done to Hamilton, nothing to lose, unlap yourself and drive as fast as you can.
Good work from Ferrari/Alonso, Massa wasting a chance yet again.
Really hoping to see an improvement for Caterham soon, hope they get the front end sorted soon.

Really enjoyed this race, glad it didn't rain. :)
 
MagicBoy said:
It was the hairpin on the penultimate lap, which would allow McLaren and the FIA just under 2 minutes to make the complaint, reach a decision and inform Red Bull.

Vettel knew what he was doing. If in doubt he should have handed the place back and bagged a safe 3rd. Perhaps next time he'll use his head. The part of the podium interview when Vettel said to Lauda that Button hadn't complained to him was just cringeworthy. Part of the penalty is a deterrent, and hopefully it'll work. Vettel was also pushing the track limits all day at the first corner and at the entrance to the stadium section.
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We have seen the FIA make decisions on giving back places within half a lap before. But here we had the overtake, the Button radio message be played on the TV, and a couple of replays before the FIA even confirmed they were looking at it.

Yes Vettel should have probably given it back, but RBR are well within their rights to seek clarification from the FIA, and expect an answer quick enough for them to act upon it.

Had the race been longer, Vettel wouldn't have been given a drive through, he would have been told to give the place back.
 
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So now your saying Red Bull asked Charlie if is was ok? any source for that one? Charlie can only give guidance on what he thinks, its the stewards that decide not Charlie. Ferrari said Charlie was ok with Alonso passing Kubica at Silverstone 2010 only for the stewards to award a drive-thru.

Red Bull had the same replays and Button's radio, the commentators called it right away, you would think a team at the top of the sport would see it as well without anything to do with the FIA.
 
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Ive just checked the champiionship standings and Alonso is now 44 points ahead of Vettel. If Vettel wins the 3 races after the Summer break (which I think is likely), providing Alonso finishes on the podium (which is likely), Vettel will still most likely be behind Alonso.

If Alonso can reach Race 13, leading the WDC, I think he has a great chance of winning the title. The crucial period is going to be those 3 races after the Summer break - just how much damage can Vettel do. If Alonso gets a DNF in one of those 3 races, then Alonso could struggle to contain the RBR cars.

I think that this season will be a close one, unless Ferrari give Alonso a car which is at least as good as the RBR. If that happens. Its game over.
 
sunama said:
Ive just checked the champiionship standings and Alonso is now 44 points ahead of Vettel. If Vettel wins the 3 races after the Summer break (which I think is likely), providing Alonso finishes on the podium (which is likely), Vettel will still most likely be behind Alonso.
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You keep saying about the summer break and Red Bull come back winning all...2010 after the break Lewis won a race and Alonso won the next 2.

2011 Seb won first 3 but not by any bigger margin than he was winning before the break when winning 6 out of 11 races so no idea why you seem to think its some given right that Red Bull will win all after the break.
 
Skeeter said:
Had the race been longer, Vettel wouldn't have been given a drive through, he would have been told to give the place back.
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But it wasn't longer, it was a last minute shambles. I can't say I've ever seen these ultra quick FIA decisions also. More often than not, they take an age to dish out the penalty during the race.
Red Bull/Vettel knew what they were doing, they gambled and (thankfully) it didn't pay off.

We heard it on the commentary during the last couple of laps what the punishment could be. None of these were "swap the cars places around in the standings".
 
Skeeter said:
We have seen the FIA make decisions on giving back places within half a lap before. But here we had the overtake, the Button radio message be played on the TV, and a couple of replays before the FIA even confirmed they were looking at it.

Yes Vettel should have probably given it back, but RBR are well within their rights to seek clarification from the FIA, and expect an answer quick enough for them to act upon it.

Had the race been longer, Vettel wouldn't have been given a drive through, he would have been told to give the place back.
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Under a couple of minutes from infraction via an FIA decision to filter it back to the teams?

Button -> McLaren -> FIA -> Stewards -> Decision -> Teams -> Action

You've got to remember that Charlie isn't the judge, jury and executioner. RBR might be within their rights to seek clarification however with the very limited timescale they were taking a gamble with the stewards. I think perhaps RBR are getting a tad arrogant.
 
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FrankJH said:
I have to say Lewis unlapping himself left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth - it was never going to make any difference to his race

I know it wasnt against the rules - it just felt "wrong"
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why its always been part of the sport ?

aslong as the backmarker isnt purposely holding someone up like damon at suzuka then i dont see a problem
 
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