German Grand Prix 2013, Nürburgring - Race 9/19

Mike306 said:
Great pole for Lewis, just hope he can covert that into a win tomorrow.

What where Merc playing at with Rosberg?
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Just a mistake, the track heated up quickly at the end of Q2 and times came tumbling down. As usual the big guns held back, took it easy in q1/q2 doing as much as they need to and no more then turned it on in Q3. More often than not now Hamilton and Vettel can just put in a killer lap on command, Rosberg isn't nearly as consistent and the easy lap he did in Q2 wasn't quite good enough.

It was predictable as hell, with the only uncertainty being Hamilton and if they fixed whatever was wrong with the car. My assumption is the roll bar was dodgy and had sent them completely the wrong way with setup trying to fix something that wasn't fixable and they just didn't have time after the roll bar fix to get the setup right. Hamilton said they went out back analysed all the data and basically did the set up off data and got it near perfect without being in the car to do it.

Irks me that the commentators were saying stuff like "when Rosberg went out in Q2 we thought Hamilton would struggle for pace"... why Rosberg went out due to a tactical error and a bit of bad luck, absolutely nothing to do with pace. Likewise Ferrari, Mclaren and Lotus seeming fast in Q2 is because they were all out and Merc/RBR were cruising, same as every single week for years. When it came down to it the big guys pulled out a half second lead and Hamilton showed what a top driver he is.

Race pace, complete unknown as Hamilton was fighting with the car so what he can do with the right setup, who knows. Track temps will play a massive role in it, but I would be very surprised currently in normal conditions to see Hamilton go to an easy win. Good start from Hamilton and I can see him being first till the first pitstops, we'll have to see how traffic plays out after that with loads more cars than usual on the harder compound.

I would imagine the front 5-6 cars will pit and get stuck behind those on mediums. In general I expect Vettel to get ahead of Hamilton in the second stint and be stronger from then on, but if the traffic holds up Vettel and helps Hamilton... who knows.
 
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Only just caught up with Quali... A fairly decent grid, shame for Rosberg, the Mercs obviously have pace.

Will be interesting the see what the Lotus can do from there, if they can go long on their tyres, and also see how those who start on the mediums can do from there.

Another great qualifying from Ricciardo as well.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
A change is needed quickly too, or they are going to become the next Williams.
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Even if you get rid of Whitmarsh you will still have the same people below him.

For what it is worth I don't think it is a personnel problem with McLaren. In my opinion they are obsessed with process and have become blinded by data.

I watched a program the other day about McLaren when the were building the new technology centre. A guy had ordered 400 casters, they arrived but they were the wrong shade of grey and he said that they didn't match the colour scheme so they would have to be re made with the correct colour.

To me that is exactly what is wrong with McLaren.
 
OldCoals said:
Even if you get rid of Whitmarsh you will still have the same people below him.

For what it is worth I don't think it is a personnel problem with McLaren. In my opinion they are obsessed with process and have become blinded by data.

I watched a program the other day about McLaren when the were building the new technology centre. A guy had ordered 400 casters, they arrived but they were the wrong shade of grey and he said that they didn't match the colour scheme so they would have to be re made with the correct colour.

To me that is exactly what is wrong with McLaren.
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Agreed, Even their current road car got slatted for being too clinical. Not sure what changes they can make in house to really improve. Maybe new engines etc will see them back up front.
 
lol nico getting shafted like merc used to all the time to schumacher.

I guess it's clear which driver they want to challenge for the title, won't be long now until nico is forced into support
 
Today after bad practice Hamilton set up a car(with a new nose? not sure if they used it in the end or not) purely from data. You need a driver who can translate car feel and data and push the car the right way, I don't like Button in general but that has nothing to do with it. I just genuinely don't believe he is the guy to get the best out of a car and without that you can't have a top end car and develop it. Feedback from the driver is crucial to almost every improvement in the car, making new parts and the driver can't find a way to get the best of them when the parts do actually improve the car, hurts the team massively.

Button for a couple years has shown significant trouble setting up his car or getting consistent performance in multiple races. People talk about him being great when the car's great, but thats precisely the point. You win titles by making a car great... its as simple as that. Without a driver who can help make a car great Mclaren are nowhere.

Thats not to say Button is their biggest problem and that car would be title capable this year... I have no idea, I just think with Button they have no chance of finding out.

MClaren started the weekend looking crap and finished qualifying looking crap. Hamilton's car looked worse than the Mclaren in p3, yet got pole.. the right and wrong setup is utterly crucial. I'm still not convinced Vettel is a truly top driver but I think he can much more often than not get that car set up and working well, and does so much more often than Webber. Though I think RBR have had the best car bar none for 3-4 years now... so its hard to quantify just how much work there is to do to get the best out of that car.

I think its generally speaking no surprise that while Hamilton was at Mclaren and Ferrari with Alonso have generally speaking incredibly inseason development of a car... because they are the two best drivers at getting the best out of a car and that goes hand in hand with dictating the direction of the guys back in the factory coming up with parts.
 
arknor said:
lol nico getting shafted like merc used to all the time to schumacher.

I guess it's clear which driver they want to challenge for the title, won't be long now until nico is forced into support
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What utter nonsense, this happened to Hamilton last year, has happened to ALonso IIRC and many others. Rosberg and the team thought the time was safe, then the track improved noticeably and he got caught out. Errors happen, how often they happen is another question... Hamilton left Mclaren because this kind of thing happened far too often. But the fact remains that Hamilton went out at the same time, went 2/10ths faster and got through and there was nothing stopping Rosberg doing the same.
 
his engineer would have told him what time he likely needed to do. (I guess you have heard the radio engineers telling the drivers what the cut off time is likely to be in each session atleast a few times now)
hamiltons engineer would have told hamilton a delta time to.

So trying to say he should have gone 2 tenths faster is just silly no one goes all out in the first session
 
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What are you on about? He went out in the second session, Hamilton WAS 2/10ths faster, and it was a time that Rosberg was fully capable of on the lap he did do, he just didn't do a good enough lap and thought he was safe when he wasn't. Had he gone 2/10ths faster on his lap in Q2, he'd be in Q3 and very very likely in the top 4. Its a mistake nothing more or less, the top 4(at least and I consider that merc/rbr) went easy in Q2, Rosberg went too slow on his easy lap and got caught out. The team weren't trying to shaft him, nor did it have any indication on who the team favours or anything else.

They simply didn't forsee the track heating up as much as it did and as many drivers gaining that much time from it.

Every driver debates on a cut off between saving tyres and going faster, merc AND Rosberg made the wrong call this one qualifying session, thats it, no ulterior motives or agenda. Its happened to multiple number 1 drivers before and it will happen again.
 
OldCoals said:
Even if you get rid of Whitmarsh you will still have the same people below him.

For what it is worth I don't think it is a personnel problem with McLaren. In my opinion they are obsessed with process and have become blinded by data.

I watched a program the other day about McLaren when the were building the new technology centre. A guy had ordered 400 casters, they arrived but they were the wrong shade of grey and he said that they didn't match the colour scheme so they would have to be re made with the correct colour.

To me that is exactly what is wrong with McLaren.
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Maybe a change at the top is what is needed to change the culture?

I agree though, McLaren (Ron) are too obsessed with everything being just so. I remember watching a program and Ron was in the MTC and some floor tiles had been replaced and they weren't the same shade colour and you could see how much it upset him. Just worry about the car not the floor tiles.
 
Skillmister said:
Would like to see Merc up top.


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I genuinely loled.. my GF didnt :p.. so its worth quoting!

Just watched quali on bbc as indeed it was too nice a day to be inside, ouch for rosberg, but p11 isnt too bad, probably not good for a merc tho!

interesting to see what ferrari do tomorrow..bit risky? i wouldnt have chanced being mid pack

nice to see lotus up there with the heat.

On bbc DC mentioned that the average family car revs to about 7k.. shows what cars he has! :p
 
arknor said:
his engineer would have told him what time he likely needed to do. (I guess you have heard the radio engineers telling the drivers what the cut off time is likely to be in each session atleast a few times now)
hamiltons engineer would have told hamilton a delta time to.

So trying to say he should have gone 2 tenths faster is just silly no one goes all out in the first session
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Lewis has his delta time on the steering wheel. I just hope the car is that good for the race as the setup is untested in race conditions.
 
drunkenmaster said:
What are you on about? He went out in the second session, Hamilton WAS 2/10ths faster
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They are told what should be a safe time and stay near it if a driver fails to reach q3 based on the time he was told it's not his fault it's his engineers for telling him a wrong time.

I'm pretty sure the 2 different engineers will say 2 different times based on their judgement.
hamilton was 2 tenths faster maybe because his delta time was 2 tenths faster.

We all know the teams like to save tyres
 
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